Friday, October 8, 2010

The Socialist


Dave Dubya said...

Hi, TP.
Thanks for yet another example of a right wing rip off. The music was written by Radiohead. They are known for their song about Bush/Blair deceit called "2+2=5" from "Hail to the Thief".

How fitting.

It's good to know Republicans continue their lying thieving ways. Let's re-elect them to speed up the economic elite's theft of all our wealth. The logical conclusion of their rule is neo-feudalism, where the economic elite and Republicans are the lords and the rest of us are serfs. Their job is almost done. Socialism sounds good in comparison. But as even Ron Paul tells us, Obama is not a Socialist. He is a corporatist. It matters not to the radical right, they have an agenda and truth is not their concern. Neither is theft.

T. Paine said...

Dubya! Welcome aboard, buddy! (I really mean that, by the way.)

As for the music, I don't know it and could really care less since it isn't classic rock or country. It was the sycophantic people that struck me in that video.

As for the rest of your rant, I would submit to you that it is the communistic/fascist progressive movement that is creating slaves in our nation by destroying wealth, jobs, and independence.

It is they that are causing Americans in ever greater numbers to be dependent upon an all "benevolent and knowing federal government" for their very survival. It is they that are the thieves of prosperity and liberty, my friend.

I find it amusing that the left looks at compassion by touting how many people they have on welfare, while conservatives define compassion by telling of how many people are now self-sufficient and no longer needing of welfare.

I would also point out to you, sir, that history proves your diatribe as grossly inaccurate.

It is capitalism that has created the most jobs, wealth, and prosperity in the world. The government does not create wealth. It is the private sector that does that.

Socialism/Communism on the other hand has directly been responsible for untold poverty, misery, and the deaths of millions and millions of people, particularly in the twentieth century.

You would do yourself some good, Dubya, to read some actual non-revisionist world history as well as Hayek's "The Road to Serfdom", sir.

T. Paine said...

By the way, Dubya, as I said, I do appreciate you stopping by and hope you return to comment on occasion as you see fit.

I admittedly am not always right and it is conceivably possible that you might convince me that I am wrong on some topic some day. I cannot fathom what that might be right now, but I have to accept that the possibility exists. ;)


Dave Dubya said...

Thank you for your kind hospitality.

Rant on Bro, but theft is theft.

We know what Republicanism has done to us without reading history. They epitomize the Golden Rule where those with the gold make the rules. I'm not defending Dems either. They are almost as much in service to the top one percent as the Guardians Of Plutocracy are.

I simply want my democracy back, fair public elections without rigged GOP voting machines, and without corporate/union cash buying our elections. Is that radical to you?

I'm simply extrapolating the trend of redistribution of wealth to the economic elite and the losses by the working class.

There's never enough for the servants of Mammon. They can buy both parties and have control of a system rigged in their favor and serving their interests. These are facts, not opinion, my friend.

What you say of communism is true. Socialism is NOT communism though. Unlike communism, socialism is compatible with both capitalism and democracy. How many wars have France, Norway, and Sweden started under their socialist systems?

How many wars has the US started? Did Vietnam attack us? Did Panama attack us? Did Iraq attack us? Has Iran attacked us? We certainly behave as if they did. Millions of innocents died and suffered in wars initiated by the kinder, gentler, capitalist US, just as horribly as those who died and suffered under Communist aggression.

As with socialism and communism, you really should take a look at the distinctions between capitalism and corporatism, and their effects on government and civil liberties.

Compassion is what we do for the least of our brethren, whether by feeding them, medically treating them, or teaching them to provide for themselves. You and I just disagree about what our collective role should be.

And of course we are both anti-Big Government. I oppose the warrantless surveillance state, and you oppose the welfare state.

So we're both screwed. At least we are free to rant about it. That is what we must preserve, as we are both pro-Bill of Rights. ;-)

T. Paine said...

Dubya, I hate to break it to you, buddy, but the Democrats have FAR outpaced the inept Republicans when it comes to voter fraud and voter registration fraud.

Hell, it was the corrupt nature of Democrat Chicago/Illinois politics that gave rise to the prase, "Vote early; vote often!"

It has been the Democrats that have registered far more dead people, non-U.S. citizens, in-mates, etc to vote than the GOP has. Acorn has been at the forefront of that corruption.

Further, when an election is close, the Democrats resort to all sorts of specious arguments such as the Florida hanging chad scenario.

The Supreme Court FINALLY had to step in and enforce Florida state law there so that the results of the recount were accepted.

I gurantee you if they had been allowed to continue recounts, eventually the Democrats would have mysteriously "discovered" enough missing ballots to have elected the fraudulent Gore as president.

I absolutely agree with you regarding removing union, special interest groups, and corporations from the political equation. Individual citizens should be allowed to donate as they wish to the campaign they so desire. If we made this so only such private citizens could vote or donate, I think we would find things to be greatly improved.

As for your "wars" questions, that is a whole other huge debate.

Suffice it to say that Manuel Noriega had control of the Panama canal and his regime could effectively block control of that vital sea lane. It was in America's and the world's interest to keep that open and to remove the corrupt drug lord Noriega in Operation Just Cause.

As for Iran, they have indeed attacked us. They or their proxies have attacked our allies on a nearly daily basis in Israel.

Further, their revolutionary guard has been inarguably tied to the IED's and other weaponry provided to the terrorists in Iraq and elsewhere. They have been directly responsible for the killing of American soldiers.

Viet Nam is a long issue, but I understand the thought process behind trying to keep Soviet expansionism from taking over the entire southeast of Asia, central America et.

Further of those wars America "started", how many of those countries did we liberate and leave to their own governance? We did not build an empire comparable to the old Soviet satelite nations under control from Washington D.C.

I whole-heartedly agree that we must take care of the least of our brethern as a moral responsibility.
I think you and I are closer on this issue than many. Indeed it is how to do that where we differ.

Frankly, Dubya, once you strip the partisan rhetoric aside from both of our arguments, we do indeed have much more in common than not on many big issues.

With a man of your intelligence I am sure I can win you over in the long run to the logic of conservatism accordingly! :) (Just kidding...maybe...)

Dave Dubya said...

I am conservative when it comes to the Bill of Rights, my friend. I beg to say there is a difference between being conservative and being politically right wing. Amish and Jehovah's Witnesses are conservative. They are not militaristic corporatist greedheads and right wing ideologues, but they are conservative.

Perhaps there are more accusations of voter fraud against dems. I also remember a mob of Republicans disrupting vote counts in Florida. Wrong is wrong.

You like to accuse ACORN of the defrauding, when in fact they were defrauded by lazy unethical employees who ACORN promptly turned in to authorities. I suppose you might believe the falsely edited “Pimp Video” as well. Similar story. The ACORN employee informed police about O’Keefe’s treacherous dishonesty.

Remember the firing of US Attorneys by “Fredo” Gonzales and Rove because they would NOT pursue unwarranted charges of voter fraud, and instead did things like prosecuting the Republican crook Duke Cunningham? That was not the Bushies idea of justice, you know.

Your complaints about Iran ring ludicrous while you support the war that empowered them, and brought their influence, and favor, to Iraq. Do you know the history of our interference in Iran? How would YOU react if you were grouped with an “axis of evil” that was being invaded and destroyed, while being surrounded by those aggressive military powers? I’m no fan of their brutal regime, but I do see some perspective.

Gulf Of Tonkin, Saddam/al-Qaeda links, WMD's were the same kind of fabrications of non-existent threats in order to wage corporate friendly wars. I’m surprised how much you selectively trust Big Government on such things. I know you can be skeptical of Republicans on certain issues. I have to wonder what makes you trust them on others.

Noriega’s drug dealing, not a threat to the canal, was the “justification” for that slaughter. (The drug problem worsened after his removal) He, like Saddam, was our buddy until he got sassy. Do you really think Panama could have seized control of the canal from the mighty US military?

I was quite the young conservative at one time. I read many books on military history. As a youth I was hyped about joining the Marines. Then my brother went to Vietnam. That is when I started asking questions. I shall never stop.

I think I can safely say I understand a bit of where you stand, as well.

Again we both value honesty and accountability. Alas, we will not find those qualities in abundance in either party of the Federal Government.

T. Paine said...

I agree that any group that seeks to defraud or disenfranchise legal voters is wrong, regardless of party. Those doing so should be punished according to law.

The O'Keefe situation aside, ACORN has had many brushes with violations of federal election laws and voter registration fraud. This is easily found from credible sources, if you cared to investigate the truth of the matter further, sir.

As far as Attorney General Gonzales, he had every right to fire any and all US attorneys. They serve at the pleasure of the president.

Indeed, Bill Clinton did fire ALL of the sitting US attorneys when he came into office to replace them with ones of his own choosing, as was his right.

If the Bush administration wished to focus on an issue that these attorneys did not want to look at, then he was well within his legal perogative and precedent to have them fired.

One wishes that Attorney General Holder would be willing to look more in depth at voter intimidation cases too, although I won't hold my breath. He is one that makes Janet Reno look competent by comparison.

As for Iran, they have been attacking us in an undeclared war for decades. Hezbollah, which is a terrorist proxy funded by and for the purposes of Iran, was responsible for killing hundreds of Marines in their barracks in Beirut, Lebannon in 1983. It was one of the few things that Reagan admitted he handled poorly with our subsequent retreat from the area.

Our recent campaigns in Afghanistan to root out al Quaida and the Taliban, as well as to prevent our enemy Saddam in Iraq from using what international intelligence legitimately concluded were his still-held WMD's were not the initial catalyst for provoking Iran.

Next, I do not trust the Democrats, nor do I particularly trust the GOP, but my values are such that I tend to agree at least with some of the lip service (if not actions) paid by the Republicans towards what I view as our vital principles of capitalism and liberty.

Iran was and today is absolutlely one of the biggest players in international and certainly regional terrorism against us and our allies. They are deservingly awarded a place in the "axis of evil" moniker accordingly, sir.

You said, "Again we both value honesty and accountability. Alas, we will not find those qualities in abundance in either party of the Federal Government." I could not agree with you more, buddy.

Indeed that is precisely the reason why I champion much of the Tea Party's agenda. It is because people are sick and tired of the lack of accountability and lies from both sides of the aisle and these people are demanding that change.

Now perhaps you dislike the political ideology of much of the Tea Party agenda, Dubya, but if you are being honest, you have to admit that they are trying to hold our elected officials accountable, sir, in what they deem the best course for our nation.

The debate of ideas is critical in order to find the best way to govern our nation via the consent of us, the governed people.

I appreciate your being a part of that process, even though we won't always agree, Dubya.