Tuesday, December 19, 2017

Tax Reform and Its Ramifications for America




As I type this post, the United States House of Representatives has just passed the reconciled tax reform bill by a 227 to 203 vote, which now goes to the Senate for a vote later today.  It too will pass there, barring any totally unforeseen last minute defections of "yes" voters.  President Trump will likely sign the bill into law later this evening.  The enormously positive ramifications on the passage and implementation of this act will be felt for nearly all tax paying Americans for many years to come as middle class tax payers get to keep more of their own money.

Yes, we absolutely should have preceded this tax reform with a spending cut reform bill.  There are huge amounts of waste, fraud, abuse, and frankly extra-constitutional (un-constitutional) spending sprees that occur every year in our federal government.  Billions of dollars need to be trimmed there, but frankly it simply is not ever going to happen with the progressive, foolish, and entrenched members of congress that we currently have from both parties sitting there. 

All of that said, I find it amusing how some of our good leftist friends are  all of a sudden concerned about this tax reform act and what it will do to the national debt.  While I can think of one or two of them who are sincere and consistent in this concern, most of these otherwise well-meaning leftist folk are simply playing partisan politics.  If they were legitimately concerned about our national debt, they would have been protesting like I did when President Obama's policies saw a doubling of our national debt from $10 trillion to nearly $20 trillion during his administration.  Needless to say, their concern rings a bit hollow now.

This is particularly true because this tax reform act will absolutely grow the economy and expand the tax base accordingly.  More jobs will be created, and many of them will be good paying jobs.  This means more taxes paid and more federal income accordingly.  Will the expanding economy pay for the tax cuts that will ensue?  Most objective economists don't think it will... as it is predicted to add $1 trillion over ten years by some of the more objective prognosticators.  Some of the more partisanly optimistic ones are sure it will pay for itself, while the partisans on the left are predictably claiming doom and gloom and ridiculously that it will increase taxes for the middle class, as per the congenital liar Nancy Pelosi.

The fact that this was passed without any Democrat support at all in the House and likely none in the Senate to come this afternoon means that when the already-improving economy further accelerates, the Democrats will have no cover with the American people of why they voted against giving more of OUR OWN MONEY back to us.

And then of course we have some leftists that wish to play the class warfare card as they continue to hate the rich first, last, and always.  This comes out particularly in the case of the decreased corporate tax rate reduction from 35 to 21%.  Now I am the first to agree that large corporations in particular should not be subsidized with tax payer dollars to effectively lower their tax rate; however, it is a pretty basic economic fact that the consumers and share-holders are the ones that end up paying that tax in the form of higher prices of goods and services needed to offset the companies' tax liabilities and in reduced returns and dividends to stock holders.  By making American corporations more competitive on a global scale, we will further see a growth in our economy and the creation of more jobs. 

Indeed, here are just a few examples of corporations that will be investing in our economy specifically because of Trump economic policies and  the tax reform: 

  • Foxconn Technology Group announced it was investing $10 billion in Wisconsin to build a factory that will employ 3,000 workers. The company predicted it will benefit another 22,000 workers indirectly.
  • Corning Inc. announced during a White House ceremony with Trump that it was investing $500 million in new U.S. production, creating 1,000 jobs.
  • Broadcom Limited announced at another White House ceremony its plan to move headquarters back to the United States, bringing $20 billion in annual revenue.
  • My own company of AT&T has said that if this tax reform is passed, they will invest $1 billion creating 7000 new high paying jobs domestically.

While serious debt reduction needs to take place, and I will continue to lobby my elected officials ad nauseum on this issue, I think this once-in-a-generation tax reform has far more upside to it than not.  It will indeed help far more Americans directly in their pocketbooks than anything done by the Democrats over the last eight years of the Obama administration.  Despite the sycophantic media towing the Democrat line as always, I truly think come mid-term elections in 2018 when people vote with their pocket-books that the Democrats will be horrified at the outcome once again, and the nation will be better off for it.

174 comments:

Majormajor said...

Allowing Americans to keep more of their money is going to grow our GDP to 4%. Good news for everyone. But knowing how the left reacts to just the idea of having personal money, this is going to be brutal.

One example: watch now as the homeless problem all at once becomes front page news, even though the media never said a word about it during the past 8 years of morbid economy. But let the economy grow and it will be a problem.

Darrell Michaels said...

Majormajro, it is indeed amazing that the homeless problem always becomes a focus of the mainstream liberal media whenever one of their darlings is not in the oval office.

The left has been very good at their messaging though. If you believe certain polls, they even have a majority of Americans convinced that this tax reform won't really be of much help to the middle class or the poor, but is simply a give-away to the uber-rich. The class warfare and hate-the-rich rhetoric is amazing.

I read an old story that I ran by today that I hadn't seen in awhile that seems illustrative of the hate-the-rich issue about two Russian peasants, Boris and Ivan. Both are poor as dirt, the only difference between them being that Boris has a goat and Ivan does not. One day, a good fairy appears at Ivan's hut and tells him that she can grant him just one wish -- but that it can be anything he wants. Ivan says, "I want that Boris' goat should die."

That seems to be the case with some of our leftist friends. They are too busy hating the rich to try to improve their own lot in life.

Dave Dubya said...

The debt hypocrisy is all on the Right. You can't pawn that off. The Right owns this $Trillion plus debt. Period. That is what makes them hypocrites, in case you don't understand the meaning of the word.

And cut the "hate the rich" crap!!! This is used as thinly veiled hate for liberals, you know. They only call it class warfare when the losers fight back.

Why do you hate the poor? See how it "feels"?

You can do better, sir.

On the consequences, we shall see, won't we?

Majormajor said...

What kind of monster would want to lower our taxes, secure our borders, protect our citizens, raise the GDP, take down the DC corruption, destroy ISIS, put America first, fix the healthcare abomination & strengthen the military?

Now the lefty's are worried about the nations debt, how strange they nevder were when Obama (blame the black guy) was President,

Majormajor said...

Fact check:
You are using the static CBO analysis. This assumes the moribund growth of the Obama years.

The dynamic CBO analysis shows a $0.4T addition to the deficit. If the GDP grows close to 4% we may have a surplus.

Jefferson's Guardian said...

Mr. Paine, you need to try harder. The real skinny behind the examples you've haphazardly chosen:

1. Foxconn Technology Group: "The state would give Foxconn more than $3 billion in incentives, not including other local incentives. It’s more than forgoing tax revenue. Wisconsin would be required to pay the company from $200 million to $250 million a year. Foxconn would avoid an environmental impact statement and sidestep a number of environmental protections imposed on other companies, including requirements that protect wetlands. Wisconsin must police whether Foxconn is living up to its promises"

2. Corning, Inc. 1000 jobs?!? That's it? A mere pittance compared to the tens of thousands of manufacturing jobs -- good paying union jobs I might add, with living wages and real benefits -- that have left this country during this century.

3. Broadcom Limited: Yes, returning due to a pending review with the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States. Because of their mergers with other foreign-based companies they would have lost their lucrative federal ("military") contracts, so they definitely know what side their bread is buttered. Just another supplier to the MIC.

4. AT&T is a classic example of a company that has laid off thousands of workers in the last couple of decades. The hiring of high salary or wage employees has been in the works for awhile. It has nothing to do with this obnoxious "gimme" to multinational corporations being touted by the Republicans and conservatives in Congress as the panacea we've been looking for so long. Sorry, I don't buy it. Neither should you. But, of course, you do.

All evidence so far, Mr. Paine, says this only enriches the wealthy and their corporate benefactors. Any tax cuts for the middle-and working-classes will evaporate in the early 2020s when their tax rates return to the status quo. Well, except for corporate rates, of course.

As I've found so many times, you're speaking out of both sides of your mouth. It's not very becoming.

One more thing: In the last post you accused me of "hating" the rich. Not so, and if you believe this you'll have to relate back to where I've ever made such a claim and show me. Otherwise, you're only lying again.

I do, however, "hate" the way the corporatocracy has steadily stolen our democratic rights over the decades and positioned the rights of corporations over the rights of humankind. That's something that should also be concerning to you. But, once again, we see the world from different baselines and you don't believe we're managed by a corporate state. I wonder what it'll take to convince you?

Darrell Michaels said...

The Republicans are indeed hypocrites, Dave. I do agree. If they were serious about the debt, they would have cut spending before doing tax reform. They do own this if it adds to the debt. Even if it does pay for itself or provides some small surplus as Majormajor's numbers predict, they still should cut large swaths out of our federal spending. That said, the Democrats have NO room in which to complain about adding to the national debt now without being the dictionary definition of hypocritical... once again. In fact, I find it interesting that some of them choose to rail against adding to the debt only in the context of the "wise and beneficent" government deigning to allow us to keep more of our OWN MONEY.

As far as the "hate the rich" crap, well what do you call it when someone is constantly calling the rich "greedy" and "servants of mammon" ad nauseum? Kinda sounds like it could be hate to me. :)

Dave Dubya said...

The Republicans are indeed hypocrites Good. We’ve established this.

I would agree a Democrat would be playing both sides of the coin if his objections were based only on debt. In case you missed the argument, it is this. Adding a trillion in debt so those who need it least get 90% of the cuts is the problem. Cutting aid for the poor so those at the top get more is called greed, and is immoral as far as I’m concerned. Not all rich people are backing this agenda. Just the greedy servants of mammon and their bought and paid for, corrupt party or Trump.

Maybe you don’t believe in the whole “serving mammon” concept. You seem to think none of the rich do so. Perhaps you see greed as only a sin of the poor. Look at Wall Street and the Kochs and tell me if they serve God or Mammon. They are takers. They want more wealth than they and their offspring could ever spend. They use that wealth as “free speech” to buy politicians and gain more wealth.

Their ideology says the rich don’t have enough while the poor have too much. Not greed? Then I don’t know what greed is. Perhaps you can educate me.

Many wealthy people of conscience would readily pay higher tax rates, but they are off your radar and don’t fit your paradigm.

Saying liberals hate the rich is no different than saying conservatives are racists.

Although judging the many by the acts of a few is the tendency of the Right. Thus liberals “hate the rich”, they “hate America”, “want free stuff”, or other such demonizing lies. End of discussion. No additional thought required. Beliefs accepted. As long as the simplistic slogans fit on a bumper sticker. MAGA! Moneyed Americans’ Greed Abetted!

What happened in Kansas after all the tax cuts and gutting of public services? Not a exactly New Capitalist Paradise, for sure. Feel free to ignore a sitting and decaying example of your ideology in practice.

Here’s an idea. How about everyone of us keep ALL of our OWN MONEY? If taxes are bad, zero taxes are good, correct?

Then we can ask how you want to pay for your war machine and expanding police state. Who’s gonna pay the cops for shooting unarmed citizens?

Not with MY MONEY! Wow. That sure “feels” good to say. But then I have no choice. Only the rich can buy public policy.

So let us enjoy our set-to-expire chump change tax cuts, while the Trump and Koch kids collect their "hard earned" MILLIONS of tax-free inherited wealth. It's the least we can do for the poor deprived brats. No greed there, no sir.

Of course, food stamps and Medicare and Medicaid will need to be cut. But it's worth it, right?

What a deal!



Majormajor said...

What proof do you have that Medicare, Medicaid and SNAP programs will be cut? How much damage did Obamacare do to these programs? Did you cry then?
Allowing those who are paying federal income taxes to keep more of their money to spend or takes money from the poor, How?

Define "rich" for me.

When are you changing your name to Chicken Little" of the sky is falling fame?

Majormajor said...

AT&T is giving $1,000 bonuses to 200,000 employees after tax bill

AT&T is paying bonuses of $1,000 to more than 200,000 U.S. employees.
AT&T's CEO said it was in response to tax reform.
The House of Representatives on Wednesday sent tax reform legislation to President Donald Trump, who is expected to sign it soon.


Leftist heads to explode soon, get the duct tape.

Majormajor said...

More duct tape please.

Fifth Third Bancorp in Cincinnati, Ohio, will pay more than 13,500 employees a bonus and raise the minimum wage for its workforce to $15 after the passage of the GOP tax plan that will cut the bank's corporate tax rate.

It is the second company to announce a bonus for employees because of the tax plan. AT&T said earlier on Wednesday it would pay 200,000 U.S. employees $1,000 each and increase its capital spending budget by $1 billion.

Fifth Third said the tax cut allowed it to reevaluate its employee pay and pass along some of the windfall. Nearly 3,000 workers will see hourly wages rise to $15. The $1,000 one-time bonus is expected to be paid by the end of this year, the bank said, assuming President Trump signs it by Christmas.

Senior managers and top executives are excluded from the special payments. "It is good for our communities, employees and Fifth Third Bank," said CEO Greg Carmichael in a statement.

Jefferson's Guardian said...

"On the consequences, we shall see, won't we?" ~~ Dave Dubya

Yes, this is going to get very interesting. It's absolutely ludicrous to imagine that this whole house of cards is based upon no less than 4% growth.

As the saying goes, "it ain't gonna happen". (How many times is the American public going to be asked to be on the non-existent end of "trickle-down"?)


"As far as the 'hate the rich' crap, well what do you call it when someone is constantly calling the rich 'greedy' and 'servants of mammon' ad nauseum? Kinda sounds like it could be hate to me." ~~ T. Paine

Well I call it, calling the rich greedy and servants of mammon. That's about it. It really needs no additional descriptors.

Could it be that your conservative mind's antagonism and hostility toward liberalism cannot conceal your projection that everybody does the same thing? ;-)

Dave Dubya said...

JG,
I’m convinced “Republican Jesus” says only the poor brown people are greedy and servants of mammon. The rich are too pure, too compassionate, and too wise. Like Trump.

Does anyone remember how giddy everybody was with the Bush rebates? That worked out swell too, didn’t it?

Banks RAISING pay to 15 an hour??? How generous. That should be everyone’s minimum pay. I had no idea their employees were such wage slaves. More for the suits, amirite? And let’s add the cost of the banks’ next theft and swindle schemes that are certain to follow, forcing us to bail them out again. Capitalist Paradise awaits.

And when Trump starts his war and more tax revenue is needed, it won’t be there. More cuts will be made, stripping the poor and middle class even further to the bone. It might even be called “patriotic austerity” or some such Orwellian term.

As I said, enjoy the Trump chump change. Higher medical insurance premiums, higher deductibles and more expensive pharmaceuticals will soon take it all away, and then some. Bye bye Trump Change.

I hope I’m wrong, but I doubt I will be.

Majormajor said...

Waa waa waaa.

Majormajor said...

Wells Fargo Hikes Hourly Pay, Will Make $400 Million In Philanthropic Donations Because Of Tax Reform

Majormajor said...

"Banks RAISING pay to 15 an hour??? How generous"

Remember it wasn't too long ago when leftist were screaming for a $15 an hr min wage? How unthankful they are, how greedy they are wanting more from others. Then when they get it the are so ungrateful.


"When Trump starts his war", another prediction from DD's psychic friends network?

Tax breaks for the rich? Define rich just once.

Then there is the race card being played by DD, again, claiming the only people poor are "brown people:"..What the heck, do you think their taxes won't drop meaning more $ in their pocket? Do the math, you and all other brown people will pay $6000 less in taxes next year. The first $12000 they make is tax free. And that is a tax cut for the rich? You d0ngt want to pay less taxes, then pay give that $6000 to the IRS.

Ad homine attack to follow.

Jefferson's Guardian said...

"I hope I’m wrong, but I doubt I will be." ~~ Dave Dubya

Most assuredly, you're not wrong. This is the commencement of the next phase of the fleecing of America.

Trickle-down again. When will Americans learn this doesn't work, and never has worked, except for a select few?

Dave Dubya said...

JG,

Behold the real Takers!

The Corker kickback, Kleptocracy 101:

CNBC says roughly four dozen Republican House and Senate members who voted for the bill stand to reap a windfall thanks to the loophole inserted at the last minute that reduces the tax rate on “pass-through” income derived from real estate. Trump stands to save millions a year from his own bill. No wonder he wants his borscht-scented tax returns secret.

Hart Research reports that 80 percent of taxpayers will see an increase of less than 2 percent in their after-tax income, and it is not until you get to the 95th percentile that the after-tax income benefits are much greater. “There is no history of voters being grateful for tax cuts that small,” he said.

Obama found that out the hard way in 2009 when he slashed the payroll tax as part of the stimulus package. This saved the average worker nearly $700 annually during the Great Recession, but the president saw no political benefit from it.

Does any “shovel ready“ parroting con-servative remember that? Hell no!

Do they remember Republican governors crediting the stimulus for infrastructure improvements? Hell no!

On this matter, Mr. Paine kindly serves his conclusion, along with a tall drink of far-Right Koolade. Let’s call it Exhibit A:

It will indeed help far more Americans directly in their pocketbooks than anything done by the Democrats over the last eight years of the Obama administration. Despite the sycophantic media towing the Democrat line as always, I truly think come mid-term elections in 2018 when people vote with their pocket-books that the Democrats will be horrified at the outcome once again, and the nation will be better off for it.

Obama slashed the payroll tax?? Obama kept the Bush tax cuts for the middle class?? FOX never tells us this do they? Why is that?

FOX and Trump’s State Media and propaganda networks NEVER report the truths that disprove their cult message.

All they remember is Obama was a Kenyan Commie Muslim coming for their guns. And that is all their far Right media wanted them to know. They are a cult and believe only their cult leaders. They prove this every day.

More magical trickle down voodoo in store. Ya just gotta believe. FOX and Republicans tell us so, because they are always honest and they alone have “value$”.

Like I said, enjoy your Trump Chump Change, and gloat about how “great” America well be.

Sad.

TB3 said...

But, But, But, Look. GM, Wells Fargo, Comcast, Etc are all giving raises or bonuses to their employees! These obvious PR moves prove that trickle down will work this time!

One has to wonder why we have to let corporations be the middlemen here, though. Government has demonstrated their ability to cut taxes here and direct them to certain groups of people/entities. They could just cut taxes deeply for you and I and leave the middlemen out of it. Imagine. Even faster economic growth! I guess it just feels right to give the juicier cuts to the rich and corporations.

Oh well. I'll enjoy the pittance I'm going to get now. I'll throw it into a savings account so I can pay for tax increase I'm going to get in 2025. At least I've got advanced warning.

Majormajor said...

Who wants tickets to the movie ‘Chappaquiddick’ ?

Darrell Michaels said...

JG, if what you say regarding Foxcon is correct, then I would agree with your assessment on this company.

Regarding Corning, Inc. and their addition of 1000 jobs, well I guess that isn't a big deal to you, unless you actually need one of their new jobs. As for those "tens of thousands of manufacturing jobs -- good paying union jobs..." that left the country, you can look at the cost of union labor as to what sometimes amounts to low/un-skilled unionized laborers being paid incommensurate salaries that are raising the cost of goods and services that made these companies leave for other countries with cheaper labor pools in the first place. If these were all highly skilled labor positions, it probably wouldn't have been as easy to replace these union workers abroad.


Next, Broadcom Limited: yes it is a shame that we have corporations that actually support and supply our military for the defense of our nation. I understand why this in particular aggravates leftists.

As for AT&T, they absolutely have downsized in recent times. Believe me, I am painfully aware of this. As technologies change and advance, there simply wasn't a need for some of the former employees anymore. AT&T is not in the business of giving out pay-checks for jobs that are no longer needed or performed. That is how the US Post Office and Amtrak, and the damned federal government operate... and always at a deficit accordingly. The fact that new technologies are emerging that will require the addition of 7000 skilled, high-paying jobs should be a good thing for those not constantly looking for the evil side of capitalism. What is sad, is that many of these jobs may be filled through folks from other countries coming to work here on H1-B visas because the lack of engineers, computer scientists, and code-writers from our universities typically cannot fulfill the need. Our kids are busy protesting against conservative free speech, capitalism, and pro-life causes while they attend their women's studies and other such feel-good left-wing clap-trap degrees instead of anything in the hard sciences.

As for individual tax cuts, yes they will eventually expire as things stand right now, but that is a good reason to elect conservative, free-market people into congress and the presidency to ensure these cuts continue. In the meantime, us middle class folks can enjoy a DOUBLING of the personal tax deduction and the child credit deductions. Maybe that doesn't help you, but I know a lot of folks that this will definitely benefit.


As for hating the rich, I wouldn't think that you or Dave or most other left-wingers would be so obtuse as to come right out and say that you "hate the rich". After all there are lots of rich socialists like Michael Moore and George Soros that I am sure many leftists do love and support. That said, anyone that has any large degree of wealth that does not spew the leftist mantras sure do seem to draw the ire of the left. Mr. Dubya routinely lists some of them by name.

Jefferson's Guardian said...

Chuck's feeble attempt to distract shows he doesn't even believe the Republican line of crap about this giveaway to the wealthy and privileged.

Look at the bright side, Chuck, you'll be in the soupline with the rest of us when the whole house of cards folds. It's said one's as good as the company one keeps. Automatically, your intellect and value as a decent human being will soar. Dave's and mine will drop precipitously. ;-)

Just the Facts! said...

"FOX and Trump’s State Media and propaganda networks NEVER report the truths that disprove their cult message."

Mind Numbed Leftist Robot.

Darrell Michaels said...

Dave, please tell me how this tax reform law takes from the poor and gives to the rich? You do realize that the reason that the poor don't get a tax cut is because they DON'T PAY INCOME TAXES, right?



"Saying liberals hate the rich is no different than saying conservatives are racists." ~ Dubya



And yet you have implied or pretty much explicitly stated that many conservatives are racist. Your implication is there every single time you accuse me and Majormajor of "blaming the black guy", since you look at the color of skin instead of the policy/issue that we are against.



It is damned amusing how you accuse us of beliefs without facts, and yet are guilty of this very thing from a leftist perspective time and time again.



"Here’s an idea. How about everyone of us keep ALL of our OWN MONEY? If taxes are bad, zero taxes are good, correct? Then we can ask how you want to pay for your war machine and expanding police state. Who’s gonna pay the cops for shooting unarmed citizens?" ~ Mr. Dubya



I don't recall any sane conservative ever advocating for zero taxes. Taxes are a necessary evil to fund those things that the government is CONSTITUTIONALLY supposed to do and nothing more. I want the current existing police state removed; not expanded. As for my "war machine", well our current military is spread pretty thin and depleted while the need for a strong military will be very necessary for our defense in coming years. This is particularly so because of the @#$%! foolish things done most particularly under Obama (whom I am told was a black man) that have endangered our country so the asshat could build some sort of "legacy". Oh, and the military is one of the few most basic functions that the constitution does claim is a responsibility of the federal government. Further, because a handful of bad cops out of millions in the nation have shot unarmed citizens, does not damn them all... or at least shouldn't.

Jefferson's Guardian said...

Let me be the first, I suspect, to wish each and everyone a peaceful and mindful Winter Solstice. Namaste...

Darrell Michaels said...

"What proof do you have that Medicare, Medicaid and SNAP programs will be cut? How much damage did Obamacare do to these programs? Did you cry then? Allowing those who are paying federal income taxes to keep more of their money to spend or takes money from the poor, How?" ~ Majormajor

Great questions, all of which have gone unanswered thus far.


"AT&T is paying bonuses of $1,000 to more than 200,000 U.S. employees. AT&T's CEO said it was in response to tax reform." ~ Majormajor



Yep, this is true. I received the email just before Majormajor posted this fact. The bonuses are going to more than 200,000 "union-represented, non-management, and 1st and 2nd line managers..." Since President Trump signed the law, the bonuses will go out to employees over the holidays. Same with Fifth Third Bancorp. And yet the left's talking points are that only the rich will benefit and wages will not rise for the little guy. There are myriad of examples that dispel this falsehood. Damn those evil corporations!


"JG, I’m convinced 'Republican Jesus' says only the poor brown people are greedy and servants of mammon. The rich are too pure, too compassionate, and too wise. Like Trump." ~ Dubya

Sure glad Dubya doesn't hate the rich, or am I reading into that again? And what in the hell does the color of people's skin pigmentation have to do with anything? Do you not know any rich people of color, Dave? There are millions of such folks living in America.

"Does anyone remember how giddy everybody was with the Bush rebates? That worked out swell too, didn’t it?" ~ Dubya

Yeah, I recall getting an extra $600 tax credit for my kid at the time and I was giddy about it.

"Banks RAISING pay to 15 an hour??? How generous. That should be everyone’s minimum pay." ~ Dubya

Yeah, that's worked out so well already in Seattle. $15 an hour still isn't really a living wage in most expensive liberal cities. Why don't we raise it to $40/hour so everyone can live comfortably? Tell me why this won't work, my leftist friends?

"And when Trump starts his war and more tax revenue is needed, it won’t be there."~ Dubya

Do you mean like if North Korea launches a nuke at America or one of our allies, or perhaps if the terrorist regime of Iran that asshat-Obama gave away the store to in order to "build his legacy" starts WWIII in the region? Maybe if Trump just talked to them, bowed, groveled, and appeased like Obama did... Oh wait... that is how we got to this dangerous point now. Never mind.

"Higher medical insurance premiums, higher deductibles and more expensive pharmaceuticals will soon take it all away, and then some. Bye bye Trump Change." ~ Dubya

Yeah because the Obamacare fix that was supposed to reduce the average family's premiums $2500 and yet actually raised them that much on average, including my own, was a great idea.

Darrell Michaels said...

"Let me be the first, I suspect, to wish each and everyone a peaceful and mindful Winter Solstice. Namaste..." ~ JG



The same to you JG. And to all of those who celebrate it, I hope you all have a blessed Christmas and that at least for a bit there can be peace on earth for all.

Majormajor said...

Former Obama deputy national security advisor Ben Rhodes mused about the deaths of top Republicans on Twitter Thursday before being scolded by GOP Rep. Steve Scalise of Louisiana, who was severely injured in the June Congressional baseball practice shooting.

And alongside the obits for Ryan, McConnell, and Pence https://t.co/fOrm1JZwpu

— Ben Rhodes (@brhodes) December 21, 2017

Leftist love.

Dave Dubya said...

Major,

Don’t be a snowflake. There were no threats, just a tasteless view into the future. He was chastised. You continue to spread the hate.

Mr. Paine,

Say, did you know most of country, most of the world, along with Mattis and Kelly, as well as the Pope, disagree with Trump’s Jerusalem provocation? Damn liberals. It appears only about a percent of Americans are true conservatives. But the rest of us should shut up and let them run the world anyway. The Republicans now exclude Democrats entirely from the legislative process. Remember, even when it was amended to suit Republican complaints, Obamacare was “shoved down our throats”? We don’t hear that phrase much from you guys lately. Why is that?

And yet you have implied or pretty much explicitly stated that many conservatives are racist.

Many are. But you can’t seem to admit it. You have sided with Trump in espousing “very fine people” marching in a Nazi organized event. You have declared BLM a racist hate group. Every white supremacist and Nazi agrees with you. AND every one of them will tell you he is a Christian and conservative.

Once again, I don’t think you are one of them, but it should give you pause, don’t you think?

I use the term “Black Guy” as a reminder of the reflexive hate directed at the man. The lies and disrespect indicate either blind rage or racism. Take your pick.

Like you ignored the facts on food stamps, you have deliberately chosen to ignore the Black man here once again. Blame, blame, blame. You blame Obama for ISIS that was clearly a consequence of Bush’s goddam war. Tell me, were we made safer? And you always single out the Black guy to blame for an international agreement with Iran. How selective. Rage or racism?

Obama slashed the payroll tax?? Obama kept the Bush tax cuts for the middle class?? FOX never tells us this, do they? Why is that?

How about you take a crack at that question? I’m serious. I dare you. I double dare you.

Are you so uninformed about the Republicans’ desire to gut safety nets for the poor as they cut taxes for those who need them least? Are you so uninformed about the Republicans’ desire to privatize Social Security?

Just because you have your ideas and opinions of what is Constitutional doesn’t make you an authority, and doesn’t make your opinions facts.

Regulation of commerce IS CONSTITUTIONAL. Providing for the general welfare IS CONSTITUTIONAL. These are called facts.

We can bicker about details and the extent of it, but you have no standing to preach to me on the subject.

well our current military is spread pretty thin and depleted

For God’s sake! You are regurgitating Trump again. We have more military power than the next 20 countries combined. They are spread around the world because we are a military corporate empire. If you still feel unsafe, you never will feel safe.

Do you believe we can afford an even larger military AND cut taxes, with no effect on safety nets for the poor? Show me the math, if you please. I don’t really expect it. More opinion dressed as fact will be more likely.

Or please tell me what it will take for you to feel safe. You obviously don’t feel safe personally with a 10 round semi auto rifle and several handguns. Will a thousand “nukular” subs make you feel safe? How about we add a thousand aircraft carriers? And what about a terrorist driving into crowds. Oops. All the subs, tanks and ships cannot make you safe. Stay frightened, my friend.

$15 an hour still isn't really a living wage in most expensive liberal cities.

You just made the case for that minimum. Thanks.

Majormajor said...

http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2014/08/28/the-general-welfare-clause-is-not-about-writing-checks/

Either the founders didn’t really intend to create a general government of limited powers, or the general welfare clause doesn’t really mean unlimited federal authority to do things beneficial to the nation as a whole.

The fact that the framers followed up the general welfare clause in Article I Sec. 8 with specific enumerated powers indicates the latter – a qualification on federal authority. If they had intended Congress should have the power to do virtually anything and everything to promote the general welfare, they wouldn’t have bothered to include specific powers.

James Madison made this very point in a letter to James Robertson dated April, 20, 1831.

"With respect to the two words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators."

Yes, promoting the general welfare falls among the responsibilities of the federal government, but it must do so within the scope of the specific powers delegated.

TB3 said...

Seasons Greetings

""What proof do you have that Medicare, Medicaid and SNAP programs will be cut? How much damage did Obamacare do to these programs? Did you cry then? Allowing those who are paying federal income taxes to keep more of their money to spend or takes money from the poor, How?" ~ Majormajor

Great questions, all of which have gone unanswered thus far." - TP

Has anyone bothered to actually look into this themselves? I mean, while you wait for answers, maybe look into it to allay your curiosity? Honestly, those questions do come off as intentionally obtuse and a deflection. Anyone even casually paying attention to political news would have come across some source they trust. It's been all over various news and political sites ranging from the NYT, Washington Post, The Hill and even Fox News.

The Speaker of the House isn't hiding what the 2018 agenda is.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/12/01/gop-eyes-post-tax-cut-changes-to-welfare-medicare-and-social-security/?utm_term=.c6773a859deb

If you don't like the Washington Post reporting on it, listen to the man speak for himself on a Right-Leaning Radio Program, the 3:30 minute mark:

https://khow.iheart.com/featured/ross-kaminsky/content/2017-12-06-speaker-of-the-house-paul-ryan/

Or you can read the Speaker's own Roadmap for America's Future he penned in 2008 which has some interesting, hilarious, and ironic language in it about the burden of debt when in context to the recent tax cuts. This isn't exactly proof, but you have to have your eyes closed and your fingers in your ears not to see the underlying intention of this tax bill.

https://paulryan.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=201669

Entitlements are next. The steep debt hole the Republicans just punched into our economy is going to be the excuse to go after them.

And the oddball question about how Obamacare hurt entitlements remains unanswered. There's nothing in Obamacare that would damage Medicare, Medicaid, and CHIP.

"Dave, please tell me how this tax reform law takes from the poor and gives to the rich? You do realize that the reason that the poor don't get a tax cut is because they DON'T PAY INCOME TAXES, right?" - TP

Why does Dave need to tell you this? There are numerous analysis online regarding tax reform. If you're truly that interested, you can easily find out. Step outside the bubble, since clearly your sources inside aren't shedding light on this issue for you. You have to look at the whole situation, the pass along affects. The Failing New York Times had a terrific article yesterday that really struck a cord with me:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/21/business/republican-tax-plan-middle-class.html

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays everyone.

Dave Dubya said...

TB3.
Intellectual curiosity has never been a characteristic of Right wing ideology. You've touched on the ongoing theme of all of our discussions.

If you're truly that interested, you can easily find out. Step outside the bubble, since clearly your sources inside aren't shedding light on this issue for you.

We've seen how this plays out. We dig the information for them, only for to be summarily ignored. It doesn't fit their reference frame of "alternative facts". Note my question about why FOX never mentions Obama's tax cuts. It will go unanswered. They get all they need from their bubble. They trust no other sources, but will use them when it works to their advantage.

This reminds of what Al Franken addressed in his final speech in the Senate:

“As I leave the Senate, I have to admit that it feels like we are losing the war for truth. Maybe it’s already lost...So what is to be done? Who will stand up and fight for a more honest debate — to insist that, even though we have a different set of opinions, we cannot honorably advance our competing agendas unless we use the same set of facts?”

This is how a nation slides into totalitarianism. The leaders are endowed with the power of forming reality for their followers.

"Liberal media" and "fake news" are the echoes of German Nazis, who used the term “Lügenpresse”, or lying press, in their campaign to destroy journalism and assure their propaganda saturated the public.

Now we have infected our republic with the toxic authoritarianism of Trumpism, a sickness fomented in racist birtherism and arrogant elitism posing as populism.

If the nation cannot rise from this vulgar, vain, ignorant, petty thug of a bully's destruction of our institutions, our decline may be sealed. So far the Party of Trump is closing ranks around their Leader, attacking our Justice Department for doing their job. Dear Leader must never be held accountable under his totalitarian rule.

Their choice is between the law and Trump. The Party of Trump is making their decision clear every day.

This will not end well...

Majormajor said...

Intellectual curiosity" are you curious about Obama and Hezbollah?

Are you curious about what James Madison said?

Are you curious about the latest news about the 'I Am So Sick of White Guys' coloring book?

TB3 said...

No.

Jefferson's Guardian said...

TB3, please excuse the limitations of the village idiot. He thinks he offers intellectual parity, but he's way out of his league. After many years, he still hasn't figured this out.

Hey Chuck, check out what Hamilton had to say rebuking Madison. There were also a couple of Supreme Court decisions, in 1936 and 1937 (or '35 or '36, but you're not worth my time looking it up) that confirmed Hamilton's opinion. (Which, by the way, is what Madison offered.)

Stop being such a mental midget. It's really getting old and redundant.

Jerry Critter said...

TP,
Your hope for an increase in economic growth due to a tax reduction does not seem to be born out by historic data. https://angrybearblog.com/2017/12/tax-rates-v-real-gdp-growth-rates-2.html Are you hoping that history does not repeat itself , this time?

Majormajor said...

If lowering taxes is such a bad economic policy then why then is NY State offering tax reductions to company's to move to NY State?

If high taxes are the key then why the reduction by NY State?

Jefferson's Guardian said...

New York State, like every state, is constitutionally required to balance its budget every year -- unlike the federal government. States can raise and lower taxes -- whether income, corporate, property or otherwise -- as long as the books balance at the end of the year.

My question: If low taxes are so good for economic growth and prosperity, why have any taxes at all? Taking this one more step, why have any laws prohibiting anything? Legalizing everything will certainly create unprecedented economic growth and vitality while eliminating the prison population, the need for a court system and especially a military-industrial-complex! Everyone can keep all of their money and be free of all those cumbersome and inconvenient legalities!

Majormajor said...

So the answer is?

It's ok to lower taxes to make the economy grow.

Jefferson's Guardian said...

The answer is: Lower taxes for working- and middle-class to spur economic activity - not taxes of multinational corporations and the wealthy. Trickle down, as Jerry Critter already mentioned, has proven to fail every time.

If lower taxes for multinational corporations and the wealthy are the all encompassing panacea to increasing economic activity, then certainly eliminating all their taxes would be the best solution to increasing jobs and GDP. Do you agree? While we're at it, let's eliminate all regulations and consumer protections. Are you on board?

TB3 said...

Nevermind the fact that the NY State Business Tax incentive that was used as an example are not broad tax incentives or tax cuts. They are targeted towards certain businesses. They also expire. You can't really compare them. New York is looking for a certain type of business to set-up shop.

https://esd.ny.gov/startup-ny-program

Dave Dubya said...

More information to be summarily ignored. It doesn't fit their reference frame of "alternative facts".

Their cult leaders are keeping this news from the true believers.

Kansas Tried a Tax Plan Similar to Trump's. It Failed

The state's experiment with tax cuts on so-called pass-through entities did not heat up its economy — but did help some very rich people.

Imagine that.


Jefferson's Guardian said...

The pass-through privileges in the new tax bill will benefit Donald Trump and his family handsomely, not to mention several members of Congress. If I'm not mistaken, the addition of this at the eleventh hour is what converted previous critic Republican Bob Corker to take the low road.

Imagine that!...what a bountiful Christmas gift they bestowed upon one another!

Corruption reigns...and the cultists buy into the masquerade. Again. And again.

Majormajor said...

NY State is lowering taxes for big evil rich corporations, is that all right?

Dave Dubya said...

Major does it again. More information summarily ignored.

"Massive Tax Cuts For Scrooge!" As "Ho! Ho! Ho!", echoes down Wall Street and from the mansions and penthouses.

And for the rest of us, a trickle down Merry Christmas, with a lump of coal.



Majormajor said...

How much lower should the Federal income taxes for the bottom % of all earners be?

Dave Dubya said...

Trump told His wealthy Mar-a-Lago pals, “You all just got a lot richer”, as Crony Capitalism grabs more wealth for Christmas.

Americans for Tax Fairness found that Trump could save "at least $11 million a year and perhaps as much as $22 million" from GOP tax plan he just signed.

International Business Times reports a "special provision" buried in the 500-page Republican tax bill—which has come to be known as the “Corker Kickback”—could amount to a combined $14 million annual income boost for "more than a quarter of all GOP senators.

Merry Republican Christmas. The most wonderful time for greed.

Majormajor said...

"Trump told His wealthy Mar-a-Lago pals"

You get that from CNN or is it the truth?

Jefferson's Guardian said...

"In what was described as a rare moment of honesty, President Donald Trump reportedly told his wealthy friends dining at Mar-a-Lago Friday night that 'you all just got a lot richer.'

'At least Trump is finally telling the truth about his tax bill.'
-- Sen. Bernie Sanders

The comments—first reported by CBS News on Sunday—came just hours after Trump signed the $1.5 trillion Republican tax bill into law.
"


"Ho Ho Ho, Ho Ho Ho! Merry Christmas my rich friends! Merry Christmas!" ~~ Santa Trump

Majormajor said...

Merry Christmas Mr. Paine.

Dave Dubya said...

'Tis the season to be hateful! Far, far, far, far far, the far Right way....

From the Con-servative Ghost of Christmas Past:

Gary Aldrich, a former FBI agent who worked on the security team for the Bush and Clinton White Houses, spewed his hatred and deranged imagination in the 1996 book entitled "Unlimited Access: An FBI Agent Inside the Clinton White House."

Knowing the radical Right will believe anything about those they hate, his book claimed that Hillary Clinton's Christmas decorating team decided to deck the tree with drug paraphernalia, condoms and cock rings.

This is American con-servatism folks. Just thought I'd share the spirit of Republican Jesus.

"Tis the season to be greedy, Far, far, far, far far, the far Right way....

Merry Christmas.

woodenman said...

Sorry Dave but that was in bad taste especially on Christmas day.

Dave Dubya said...

Woody,

Bad taste? Consider the source. It was a bit harsh, but this is how the radical Right operates. They lie, and I call them out. The truth shouldn’t take a holiday. The Right attacks and undermines the truth every day of the year.

Perhaps just quoting con-servatives is in bad taste, but my quoting them is not as foul and evil as those who produce it.

They never let go of their hate and lies. Not even when it comes to Christmas. THEY invented a “war on Christmas” to attack liberals and stir up hate. This has been happening since the Clinton Derangement Syndrome drove them into a frenzy of lies and blind hate. Christmas or not, they have no qualms whatsoever about such matters, which happens to be the point I’m making here.

I will be here to remind them of Christmas past. I am the ghost to their Scrooge. I will haunt them as long as they lie and hate in the name of greed and the political power of wealth.

Merry Christmas.

Majormajor said...

Merry Christmas Woody, and all the best in the New Year!!

Majormajor said...

Likes like this one Dave?


"Trump told His wealthy Mar-a-Lago pals"

woodenman said...

Merry Christmas to you and yours Chuck, and may 2018 be a great year for you. James

Jefferson's Guardian said...

"Likes like [sic] this one Dave?"

Yes, just likes like that one, Chuck. ;-)

Chuck, you fail to grasp that it wasn't necessary that your Dear Leader made the reported remarks. He did, in fact, make his rich friends a whole lot richer.

Majormajor said...

You fail to realize that Dave said it and has not retracted it or tried to explain it away. You however, are doing that.
Why?

Basing his argument on something not said but instead in something Dav implied is a very weak argument.

"He did, in fact, make his rich friends a whole lot richer." This is your claim, how about a list of those friends?

Jefferson's Guardian said...

"Basing his argument on something not said but instead in something Dav [sic] implied is a very weak argument." ~~ Clueless Chuck

Read the article I hyperlinked for you above. (Time-stamped 4:35 AM) Why is
it that I must always spoonfeed you?

After you've read the article, I think you owe Dave an apology.

Jefferson's Guardian said...

Woodenman1954, why do you think Dave's comment "was in bad taste"? I read it a few times and all I see is Dave's role as the messenger. As he said, truth shouldn't take a holiday.

Certainly Trump's remarks, to his wealthy Mar-a-Lago friends commencing a holiday weekend, were in bad taste. Don't you agree? Certainly the Right's incessive war on truth is in bad taste, also, don't you think?

woodenman said...

Considering the importance of the day to our host I thought the comment was provocative and crude even if it was not untrue. Some parts of the comment was unnecessarily snide which I dislike. I agree with Dave almost 100% but not with his delivery.

Even in the midst of a world war they had a undeclared Christmas Truce of 1914, are you familiar with it?

Dave Dubya said...

James,

Here’s my take.

Just as mass shootings are indeed a time for discussing gun control, Christmas is the best time to note the Right’s malevolent employment of Christmas in ideological warfare.

A truce can only occur when it is honored by both sides. I was illustrating the Right’s sick and dishonest use of Christmas as a weapon against liberals and Democrats.

This isn’t a personal attack on Mr. Paine or his faith. I am from a Catholic family. I would hope, and trust, he has the decency to condemn such tactics.

But far too many on the Right buy into the hate and lies. Is there an equivalent to this case I noted, or anything like “Pizzagate” from liberals? I don’t think so. The Right has abandoned basic decency in their support of Trump and dishonest smearing of liberals. Using Christmas to do so doesn’t bother them in the least.

Yes, there are honest and decent conservatives, but they are drowned out in the Trumpist cult of personality and fevered ideological aggression of the far Right.

When the radical Right embraces the concept of “and on earth peace, good will toward men”, instead of weaponizing Christmas and demonizing liberals, I shall gladly honor a truce and extend good will.

If after that, they stop with the “Lügenpresse” assault on journalism and truth, maybe we can agree on facts. That is the only way compromise and democracy can work. But they have made clear their authoritarian attitude towards democracy, a free press, and compromise, haven’t they?

Majormajor said...

Woody,

You are a liberal, you understand common decency and compromise.

Dave and JG are leftist, they have no decency and will never never compromise.

Just ask Rain.



Best of the New Year James.

TB3 said...

"Ad homine [sic] attack to follow."

MM, I want to point out that you wrote these words in a previous response in this thread of comments. At the time I assumed you were predicting what sort of response you would receive to your contributions to this discussion. It turns out, however, you were merely warning us of your own intentions.

Majormajor said...

So what?

Are you going to list all the times and things these two leftist have said was gonna happen and hasn't?

TB3 said...

No. I'm not. It's not relevent. I am simply making an observation; Maybe suggesting that those you are "debating" will resort to ad hominem attacks while you, yourself, resort to them is counter-productive to the entire affair. Unless the entire point that you engage in these conversations is to not be productive.

Majormajor said...

Observe this.

President Trump news leftist will hate.

CNS News -- According to the Bureau of Labor
Statistics( BLS), the unemployment rate for black Americans is the
lowest it has been since the year 2000, 17 years ago.

In November, the national unemployment rate for black Americans, ages 16 and over, was 7.3%.

The last time it was 7.3% was in the year 2000, during the months September, October and November.

During the Bush and Obama years (2001 -2016), the black unemployment rate fluctuated between 7.7% and a high of 16.8%.

Back in September 2017, the rate was 7.0%, a low that had not been seen
since April of 2000. Prior to that, going all the way back to 1972, the
black unemployment rate never fell below 7.0% and was largely in the
double digits throughout the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s.

TB3 said...

That's really not something that's observable, MM. The only thing observable here is your distraction and deflection technique. Way to not provide a citation for your Cut and Paste job, by the way. You're already on the website, why is it so difficult for you not to also provide the link to the article you're referencing? I've seen you do it before. Consistancy man.

Also... this isn't Trump news. Also... why would "leftists" hate this? Shouldn't everyone find the news that African-Americans are still lagging behind in unemployment numbers?

Or rather than look at it as a cup half empty, we can rejoice in the fact that, like every other demographic, African-American unemployment has been on the decline since the Great Recession?

https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2017/unemployment-rate-held-at-4-point-1-percent-in-november-2017.htm

I also find it rather telling that the news source you C&Ped from, yes I eventually found the article on my own, cherry-picked the data. Why'd they stop at September 2017 when Oct. and Nov. 2017 data is available? Is that because after dropping to 7.0 in September that it jumped back up to 7.5 in October and 7.3 in November? They even showed this in the article but wanted to highlight the lowest rate they could find for the narrative. Maybe they should have waited until December's numbers come out so they can capitalize on the drop in unemployment for Christmas Retail jobs?

And we care about the U3 Unemployment numbers now? During the Obama years we were all judging the economy on the U6 numbers. Oh, wait, no we don't. We're shotgunning issues on a comment thread about the awful tax policy that just got passed to distract.

Jefferson's Guardian said...

One needs to understand that unemployment rates are skewed since they don't reflect the total unemployment rate of those who have stopped looking for work or those whose unemployment benefits have elapsed. By themselves, the exact numbers are somewhat meaningless. Nevertheless, the trending numbers give a better understanding of what has happened and what is happening in the economy as a whole.

From the charts it's apparent that unemployment rates have trended downward for quite a few years -- and yes, even through the current year -- for both genders, most age groups, and for all races measured. Any praise for this cannot be attributed to the policies of the Trump regime, yet, no more than what occurred beginning with the commencement of the Obama years can be blamed on the previous president.

Give this current president another year-or-so in office, with a true scrutiny of the new tax law and its effects, and we'll all be able to heap upon the praise, or blame, for what his administration has accomplished (or not). Until then, he's only riding upon the residuals of the past president's policies.

I have to wonder, Chuck, what your education level is and whether you've studied economics in higher education -- or even attended school beyond high school. I'm supposing not. Am I correct?

Majormajor said...

As I said, news leftist will hate.

Jefferson's Guardian said...

"Despite the sycophantic media towing the Democrat line as always, I truly think come mid-term elections in 2018 when people vote with their pocket-books that the Democrats will be horrified at the outcome once again, and the nation will be better off for it." ~~ T. Paine

Once again, Mr. Paine, I must take issue with your claim (highlighted in bold font). As I've offered and have argued with you countless times, the mainstream media follows a "corporate line" and reports upon those issues congenial toward the status quo -- whether a Democrat or Republican lives at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

All items reported have to coincide with, and be acceptable to, each network's or publisher's paid sponsors. If the viewpoints presented do not, the fear of losing sponsorship (revenue dollars) is much greater than the obligation to report the news (and opinions) fairly and in an unbiased manner. Because sponsorship dollars come mainly from large corporations able and willing to pay large advertising fees, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that outlying viewpoints (and in many cases, the truth) are not expressed fairly -- if at all.

TB3 said...

"As I said, news leftist will hate."

Ok. Do you just interpret words the way you want them to be interpreted or something? Is it intentional? Or do you genuinenly not understand the language you are using in this discourse? The only hate following your comment is your derisive use of the "leftist" moniker. So it isn't discourse you're looking for. Liberal Tears, is it?

Dave Dubya said...

TB3,

Thank you for noting MM’s use of one of the radical Right’s favorite tactics, called projection, attributing one’s worst characteristics to others.

Dave and JG are leftist, they have no decency and will never never compromise.

I find it entertaining how the “Rightists” are engaging in their other favorite tactic of unilaterally defining words. As you observed, “Do you just interpret words the way you want them to be interpreted or something?”

Woody, You are a liberal, you understand common decency and compromise.

(Unbeknownst to MM, I am in fact, a Progressive. ;-) He’ll have to go back to their manual now.)

This is their latest kick. Only far right cons may define what “liberals” and “leftists” are. They clearly want to use this tactic to divide and conquer their opposition, of course. Not only do far right cons present their alternative facts as truth, only far right cons may define any and all terms of discourse, giving them their perceived advantage.

Knowing what we know about MM, he is obviously not a conservative, but a Rightist.

Amirite?


JG,

sycophantic media towing the Democrat line as always

It is a long held article of faith in the Cult of Con-servatism. No evidence is required to support this dogmatic claim. Those hated corporate media outlets all have a Trumpist on air, regurgitating their disinformation. But this evidence to the contrary will be dismissed. In fact, their projection is obvious. Their own sycophantic propaganda network of FOX and Sinclair have become Trump’s STATE MEDIA. But never mind that. Look at the “liberal media” attacking our Dear Leader! HOW DARE they report Trump’s hateful tweets as lies!

As I’ve noted, the far Right’s primary Big Lie is “liberal media”. It is their war on journalism. Journalism has always been seen as a threat to totalitarians and authoritarians. Only the Right may dictate what truth is. Their bubble is sacrosanct.

The German Nazis used the term “Lügenpresse”, or lying press, in their campaign to destroy journalism. Now American fascists, and their gullible con-servative allies, cry “liberal media” and “fake news” when the truth threatens their agenda.

Trump and Roy Moore are perfect examples of this whiny, unctuous blaming of the press for reporting their detestable behavior and lies

The Open-Eyed Cynic said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Darrell Michaels said...

Well, based on the comments I have read, I have learned or had many of my notions reinforced during my brief hiatus this past week.

First, my notion that James is a good and decent man was again reinforced. I thank you sir for always being an example for all of us on how we should behave, myself included.

Second, I do hope that everyone that celebrates Christmas had a very blessed time. And for those good folks that do not, I hope you too enjoyed your time spent in whatever good way you did.

Third, thank you Majormajor for your letter from James Madison on the proper role of government when it comes to the "general welfare" of the republic. As the "father" and primary author of our constitution, I think his take on what most of the founders asserted was the proper role of our federal government is highly relevant. I certainly think this is the case over some SCOTUS rulings during the FDR era during the extra-constitutional expansion of government. But then, as has been asserted by others, I am not a "constitutional scholar"; certainly not of the likes of our recent former president, anyway.

Next, TB3 and others, I ask questions of Mr. Dubya and others not because I don't know the answers and am too lazy to look them up myself. I ask to see if they know the answer themselves, or will simply recite leftist talking points.

Continuing, as regards JG's inquiry as to Majormajor's level of education, let me first state for the record that I neither know nor care. He is always welcome and often adds valuable information to the debate. Further, I have over the course of my life met many a PhD that was educated well beyond the capabilities of his own intelligence, while I have met more than a few "high school graduates" whom are self-educated and could easily teach and impart great knowledge to those students in their ivory towers of upper education.

JG, I understand that you think all media is not "leftist" but rather is "corporate". I will even stipulate that this is true to a certain extent; however, when you look at simple measures of whether there is a left or right bias in what is reported and not reported, it becomes readily apparent to anyone looking that most of the mainstream media sources are very left leaning. Look at the level of negative stories done on Reagan, Bush, and Trump and the focus on scandals, often with little or no corroborating evidence versus the often fawning stories on Clinton and Obama and the relative ignoring of negative stories or scandals.

I note the most recent example of a story not being reported hardly at all is the subordination and indeed interference of the DEA's investigation into Hezbollah's drug running in America to fund their terrorism so as to seemingly not anger the Iranians during the negotiations of that execrable deal, presumably so that Obama could have a "legacy" of some sort. Unlike our friend, Mr. Dubya, and his constant assertion of Republicans' crying "lugenpresse", I am one conservative that wants all scandals and stories reported, regardless of whether the target subject has a "D" or an "R" behind his name. Oh what a wonderful world THAT would be!

Dave Dubya said...

Open-Eyed Mr. Paine,

Thank you for reciting this “rightist talking point”. when you look at simple measures of whether there is a left or right bias in what is reported and not reported, it becomes readily apparent to anyone looking that most of the mainstream media sources are very left leaning

According to whom, pray tell?

Those measures must be so simple the source needn’t be identified. It is an article of faith, for only FOX, Breitbart, and Limbaugh are truly “fair and balanced”, free of all political agendas.

At least you will admit our term “corporate media” isn’t so “leftist” and true to an amorphous “certain extent”. Perhaps corporate ownership and dedication to profit is only to a “certain extent”, and subservient to their “liberal corporate agenda”?

I’m happy you share your enlightened view here:

Look at the level of negative stories done on Reagan, Bush, and Trump and the focus on scandals, often with little or no corroborating evidence versus the often fawning stories on Clinton and Obama and the relative ignoring of negative stories or scandals.

It is a shame how the liberal media parroted Bush and Cheney so much the public believed Saddam was involved with 9-11. It’s a wonder they bothered with Iran/Contra, the WMD lies, and the lies from Trump and his cronies about contacts with Russians. This is clearly an agenda afoot.

Apparently the country was never informed of the Clinton/Lewinsky scandal and impeachment. I must have forgotten how I learned about that. Probably through the impartial reporting of FOX(R). We are indeed indebted to them for their unbiased journalistic integrity. If not for them, how could we ignore Obama’s tax cuts for American workers?

It appears the country was also never informed about Hillary’s email server. I wonder how I missed this? We’d better blame the liberal media again.

According to Columbia Journalism Review, “In just six days, The New York Times ran as many cover stories about Hillary Clinton’s emails as they did about all policy issues combined in the 69 days leading up to the election.”

Luckily we have conservatives to thank for being alerted to that Big Lie called “journalism”.

By all means, we should ignore that historical precedent termed “Lügenpresse”. It’s probably just “fake news” anyway, amirite?

Jerry Critter said...

"Opened Eyed" indeed. To bad we didn't get to read his deleted comment. Oh wait......

Jefferson's Guardian said...

"...it becomes readily apparent to anyone looking that most of the mainstream media sources are very left leaning." ~~ T. Paine

I'm a part of the total population encompassing "anyone", as is Dave, yet I don't see a liberal bent at all. As Dave already articulated in his various examples, the mainstream media covered the elements of various scandals, perpetuated by both corporate parties, over the decades. The Republican wing wasn't treated any differently than the Democratic wing.

As far as Chuck's level of education, personally I could care less. I was just pointing out his obvious lack of understanding of subject matter that's most usually covered in a university setting. You'll have to agree that Chuck exhibits an obvious lack of nuance and detail. Or, I could give him the benefit of the doubt and just accuse him of blatant and purposeful lies. Either way, he's providing incorrect and meaningless information, and I wasn't going to give him a pass as you always do.

TB3 said...

I hope you had a fantastic Christmas, T.Paine. Welcome back to the frivolity. :)

"TB3 and others, I ask questions of Mr. Dubya and others not because I don't know the answers and am too lazy to look them up myself. I ask to see if they know the answer themselves, or will simply recite leftist talking points."

So I tried my best to answer them. I get no talking points sent to me. I am not a member of a Republican, Conservative, Libertarian, Liberal, Democratic, Socialist, Leftist, Etc mailing list... unless you count the periodic emails I get from my Goodreads forums... anyways; I didn't recite talking points and provided relevant websites to support my answers. So were my answers the same as your answers? The counter-response that MM provided my efforts:

"Intellectual curiosity" are you curious about Obama and Hezbollah?

Are you curious about what James Madison said?

Are you curious about the latest news about the 'I Am So Sick of White Guys' coloring book?"

Which distracts and deflects from any of the points I made AND any of the questions I was trying to answer from him. And I just quoted the response I got from you.

"I will even stipulate that this is true to a certain extent; however, when you look at simple measures of whether there is a left or right bias in what is reported and not reported, it becomes readily apparent to anyone looking that most of the mainstream media sources are very left leaning."

How is that a simple measure? If such a measure were even codified, it would inherently be biased. Are you saying every ridiculous claim should be provided an equal amount of coverage? That’s ridiculously naive and unrealistic. We have multiple, unaffiliated news agencies. "Pizzagate" should get equal space on the front page next to "Roy Moore has been accused of inappropriate behavior towards [Insert number of minors]"? You should not deride a news organization(s) for choosing to cover actual stories over rumors propagated by Internet trolls. Even if you prefer the horrific implications of the rumors over the actual stories. This Blog is called Saving Common Sense. Where's the Common Sense in this?

TB3 said...

"Look at the level of negative stories done on Reagan, Bush, and Trump and the focus on scandals, often with little or no corroborating evidence versus the often fawning stories on Clinton and Obama and the relative ignoring of negative stories or scandals."

You can't 'look at the level of negative stories' because, as with every time you make this claim, you never offer us any to 'look at'. For every 'Grab 'em by the _____' we got during the last election, we got dozens of 'But her e-mail server'. Or a dozen articles analyzing Benghazi and Clinton's answers before Congress. Are we tired of hearing about our current President's possible collusion with Russia? You'd rather hear about how Obama literally gave Iran nukes?

"I note the most recent example of a story not being reported hardly at all is the subordination and indeed interference of the DEA's investigation into Hezbollah's drug running in America to fund their terrorism so as to seemingly not anger the Iranians during the negotiations of that execrable deal, presumably so that Obama could have a "legacy" of some sort."

This story literally just broke last week. IN POLITICO. Not Newsmax. Not TheBlaze. Not Brietbart. Politico; the organization founded by Robert Allbritton (A known Clinton Foundation donor, that's important to know for a segment of the population apparently) and some former editors of the Washington Post. I'm honesty surprised you even know about this story, considering the source. What do you want? This Not-Right-Leaning Publication broke this story implicating the Obama Administration. The New York Times has an article, the same day Politico broke the story, indicating the Attorney General is asking for a review of what's been alleged. Things not progressing fast enough for you so it's got to be some Liberal/Leftist Plot to supress the truth? Finding out the truth takes time. Just ask Robert Mueller.

Majormajor said...

News the lefty will find fault with or deny.

Feeling the Burn in Venezuela.

PUERTO ORDAZ, Venezuela - Venezuelan authorities said on Tuesday
they had arrested 28 people in southern Bolivar state for looting and
disorder over Christmas in the latest unrest during a severe economic
crisis.

There have been scattered protests and roadblocks around the South American
OPEC nation in recent days over food shortages, power-cuts, high prices
and fuel rationing.

Localchamber of commerce head Florenzo Schettino told Reuters 10 businesses -mostly liquor stores - were looted as dark fell on Christmas Day in
Bolivar, which has seen unrest at various points over the last four
years of brutal recession.

Majormajor said...

Of course this is all ok with lefties.

Redneck Revolt is a national activist organisation that advocates for the downfall of capitalism through the elimination of racism. Its founders believe strongly that working-class liberation can only occur when workers unite, regardless of race. So in 38 different locations around the country, Redneck Revolt mobilises poor, rural white people to stand up for people of colour.

Indeed, Redneck Revolt may look like many other social-justice groups – its website contains frequent mentions of “trigger warnings” and “solidarity” – but it is far from it. The members of Redneck Revolt don’t want you to sit in a circle, hold hands, and sing Kumbaya. They want you to know you have an enemy – it’s just not who you think it is.

In an open letter that the group frequently uses for recruitment, it urges working-class white people to “look around” and wonder: “Who lives in the houses or trailers in the same neighbourhoods as us? Who works next to us in the factories, or cooks alongside us at the restaurants?”

“It sure as hell isn’t rich white people,” the letter continues. “It’s Brown people, Black people, and other working-class white people. They are the ones that are in similar situations to us, living paycheck to paycheck, stretching to feed their families like we do. So why then would we view them as so different from us that we literally view them as our enemies?”

TB3 said...

Thank you for not contributing anything of any substance to the conversation at hand. Distract and deflect.

Dave Dubya said...

“News the lefty will find fault with or deny... Of course this is all ok with lefties.”

Someone has a lot of obsessive and deep-seated fantasies about “lefties”, doesn’t he? Of course this is all OK with righties, amirite?

At least I think this was his point. I'm not sure. I think I need more distraction and deflection.

Majormajor said...

Things must REAL slow over at the blogs of Tom and Dave for Dave to hang out here. What's next a post from Mozart?

Dave Dubya said...

MM,

Why should we go anywhere else when we can learn so much about “leftists” and “liberal media” here? It’s like FOX(R), Limbaugh, and Breitbart without the ads.

We can almost smell the new American greatness.

Majormajor said...

"We can almost smell the new American greatness."

well that's a start.

TB3 said...

See also: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sarcasm

Dave Dubya said...

TB3,

Making fun of, or a jest: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jest , with a dash of satire: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/satire

Or in the framework of MM’s understanding , the mysterious “Alinsky playbook” that none of us have ever seen.

If only there was a word that describes Dear Leader’s criticism of Obama playing golf, as Dear Leader gets “back to work”. 341 days in office, 86 days at the golf course, and 112 days at Trump properties.

Sometimes words and behavior simply beg for jest, sarcasm, satire.

TB3 said...

The word you may be looking for might be:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irony

or maybe:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrisy

Jefferson's Guardian said...

LOLOL Gentlemen, and you also, Chuck, are providing an almost unexpected warmth on a very cold December day. Thanks for the grins and giggles! Keep 'em coming! This exchange is priceless...

Majormajor said...

Tom Degan is calling you

TB3 said...

Not really sure who that is. But that response sure does come off as an ad hominem.

Majormajor said...

https://tomdegan.blogspot.com/

JG's http://nocorprule.blogspot.com/


Dave the Commie's http://www.davedubya.com/

Jefferson's Guardian said...

Another casualty in the Republican war against the poor and working- and middle-classes.

The flimsy idea of "compassionate conservatism" has certainly fallen out of favor since the Bush years. This new tax law provides the final death knell.

Dave Dubya said...

JG,

As we know, “compassionate conservatism” is an oxymoron. Con-servatism ALWAYS serves the greed of the economic elites.

Con-servatism has ALWAYS been about preserving and expanding the wealth of the aristocratic elite. Con-servatism ALWAYS facilitates and expands the political power of the wealthy. Con-servatism has ALWAYS been the domain of authoritarianism. Suppressing voter rights and demonizing dissent are tactics they share with fascism and totalitarianism.

Authoritarian con-servatism’s enemies are journalists, educators, scientists, minorities, unions, advocates of equality, voter rights, and all who embrace Constitutional taxation of the rich and corporations while supporting Constitutional provisions for the general welfare of WE THE PEOPLE.

Con-servatism must dupe enough voters to hold power for the elites.

That is why they must wrap their ideology in the trappings of patriotism, “freedom”, the flag, and religion. Their fevered support for the likes of Trump and Moore prove how shallow their pretensions of morality and decency truly are. The Big Con is revealed.

Their indisputable bottom line is power and “Value$”.

Darrell Michaels said...

JG...uhhh...yeah... Well, I, for one, woke up this morning with a text from my bank saying that my $1000 bonus from my big evil corporation of AT&T had been deposited to my account. Yep. Trickle down economics doesn't work and those evil corporate "persons" won't share the wealth of tax cuts as the economic engines of our nation are primed by conservative principles in the form of a corporate tax cut, huh?

If only we could raise taxes to 75% instead and have the government take care of all of us instead of being self-reliant. I doubt I would have gotten this bonus, but at least I would know that Uncle Sam still cares about me, right? And, after all, it would be the rich that pays for it all... kind of like they do now... but only a lot more so.

Dave, the point you miss is that Leftists think that nobody can do anything without the help of the beneficent and wise federal government. You want help from the womb to the tomb. (Assuming that the greater good of abortion-on-demand allows you to safely exit the womb.) Conservatives simply want the government to address and manage those few things they are constitutionally mandated to do and then to leave us the hell alone. True conservatism is compassionate because it aspires for each of us to strive for our goals via self achievement, while taking care of those that CANNOT take care of themselves.

Leftism assumes that everyone cannot make it without the assistance of the government, ("You didn't build that!") with the exception of the evil rich and their dastardly corporations which obviously only got their wealth and power by cheating all of us poor and middle class folk. They should be punished accordingly, right?

Go read the parable of the ant and the grasshopper again, gentlemen.

Just the Facts! said...

If only we could raise taxes to 75% instead and have the government take care of all of us instead of being self-reliant."

Why not 90%?

Jerry Critter said...

I’d say that TP has been bought off pretty cheaply. He is happy to give AT&T a 40% cut in their tax rate in return for a one-time $1000 bonus...a bonus given to him, not earned by him for exemplary service.

TB3 said...

"...from my bank saying that my $1000 bonus from my big evil corporation of AT&T had been deposited to my account."

Honestly, Congrats. It's always a great feeling to get a little extra money at the end of the year. However, are you really sure you want to think of this as 'trickle down'? They essentially gave you a one-time, one-year raise of $0.48/hr. The CWA was asking companies that hire their members do $4000 pay increases if the tax cuts were passed. That would have been nice, huh? I don't want to belittle the $1000 you got, but you have to admit the optics come off as a P.R. move... considering how quickly they made the announcement and it's only for this year.

"If only we could raise taxes to 75%..."

Huh?

"Dave, the point you miss is that Leftists think that nobody can do anything without the help of the beneficent and wise federal government."

Literally no one advocates for this strawperson scenerio. The government advocating for We The People is kinda why we set it up in the first place. It's to defend us both from foreign aggressors and AT&T price gouging us or Blue Cross from dropping us from coverage when they don't want to pay for the services we gave them money to pay for when we needed it.

"True conservatism is compassionate because it aspires for each of us to strive for our goals via self achievement, while taking care of those that CANNOT take care of themselves."

No. It isn't. In no definition of Conservatism will you find any version of what you describe. No definition of compassion or compassionate includes 'Do it yourself, unless you can't'. If I break my leg, I can probably, technically, get myself back into a standing position on one leg without your help. However, it would be compassionate of you to lend me a hand so it's not so hard for me.

"Leftism assumes that everyone cannot make it without the assistance of the government, ("You didn't build that!")"

It's really, really unfortunate that you and others continue to take President Obama's words out of context. Obama's whole assertion is that Business doesn't succeed in a vacuum. He was referring to the infrastructure that we all use as a society. AT&T didn't build the roads from your home to their office. The various government agencies who had those built enables AT&T to benefit from a easier commute for you to the office which helps to drive AT&T's productivity.

Also, again, no one literally thinks that 'everyone cannot make it without the assistance of the government'. No one. That's a strawperson argument with no basis in reality. A "leftist" advocating for government action on something doesn't automagically mean they are also for the slippery slope end result of TOTAL CONTROL. Just as I don't assume you, who considers themself a conservative and you want the government to back off, don't advocate for complete anarchy.

Dave Dubya said...

Once again we are taught "what liberals think", and how they are portrayed by the propaganda of the far Right.

Mr. Paine,

You have admitted you like “free stuff” from the benevolent corporate master. Good for you. I bet you forgot Obama's tax cuts again. The Cult ignores this too.

As for those who work just as hard and get nothing but minimum wage and no benefits? Who cares? I got mine, right?

Dave, the point you miss is that Leftists think that nobody can do anything without the help of the beneficent and wise federal government. You want help from the womb to the tomb.

Right. And don’t forget I’m a commie too. Your sidekick says it, so it must be true, amirite? Of course. Mr. “ad hominem” strikes again. You wouldn’t tell him he’s wrong, would you? Deep down you believe the same demonizing lie. Con-servatism seizes the right to define what we think and seizes the right to define terms unilaterally. It creates its own propaganda empire to dupe the gullible as it demonizes journalism as “fake news” and “liberal media”. Just because Nazis did it, doesn’t mean it’s bad, right?

Add a dash of fantasies of persecution while you’re at it with, “leave us the hell alone”. Trayvon Martin and Eric Garner and everyone stopped for DWB wouldn’t know about that, would they? They live in dread of “true conservative” cops, eager to assert their authority over the “others”.

Ever the suffering victims, no wonder those poor white conservatives grab their tiki torches and march with “very fine people”.

Your cult indoctrination is on display. Your belief in the sinister “other”. It is from ignorance and contempt for those you do not understand because you dismiss what they really say and cling to the cult brainwashing.

True conservatism is compassionate because it aspires for each of us to strive for our goals via self achievement, while taking care of those that CANNOT take care of themselves.

Yet somehow huge tax cuts for the rich and permanent cuts for corporations show where the “compassion” goes. It aint going to healthcare, is it? It aint going to protect our air and water is it?

“True conservatism”. This is whatever Mr. Paine says it is, of course. Or is it Limbaugh? Or Trump? Or FOX(R)?

The point is this. Nothing has been shown to indicate my statement on con-servatim is false. Instead you wrap yourself in the sacred ideological bubble and regurgitate propaganda to attack those who dare call out the con-servative agenda.

And guess who decides who can and cannot take care of themselves? Guess who decides healthcare is a commodity and not for the general welfare? Guess who decides what the Constitution means? ONLY true con-servatives, for they alone are wise and benevolent.

Oh, look. A poor person with a bad cough. Don’t worry, when he coughs up blood he can go to the ER. He should be happy there’s no communist healthcare available. Because “freedom”.

“Leftism assumes” whatever the cult says it assumes. Again, what we say must be ignored and dismissed.

("You didn't build that!")

Classic example.

And what was meant by “that” again? Ignoring the Black man’s original context, the cult twists it for their gullible and fanatic “true conservatives” to mean something else.

Sad.

Go read what Jesus said about the rich again. Who are the servants of mammon? What about those money changers? And while you’re at it, find where he said the rich pay too much in taxes.

Obviously Jesus was NOT a “True conservative”. But since He “blessed us with Trump”, He’s learning?

Darrell Michaels said...

JTF, I'll see you 90% and raise you to 95%! The government can take REALLY good care of us for that much!



Jerry, I can be bought with MY OWN MONEY SAVED by getting $24K instead of a $12.7K standard deduction. I can be bought with a tax policy that causes job growth and an increase in our nation's GDP. Now if I can only get the government to cut spending that is wasteful, inefficient, and outside of its constitutional scope.

Jerry Critter said...

“If only we could raise taxes to 75%..."

I’d be in favor of that on say income above 5 or 10 million per year.

Darrell Michaels said...

TB3, I understand and appreciate your point on the bonus, but the fact is that AT&T didn't have to give anyone a bonus. It was never even thought about, let alone expected. That said, the 200,000 union-represented and first and second level managers that got that bonus I am sure are pleased at the unexpected windfall. Yes, this was done for P.R. purposes, but it also improves employee morale and is a sharing of the wealth that AT&T can expect with the passage of the law.

As for the 75% comment, I was pointing out absurdity by being more absurd.

"It's to defend us both from foreign aggressors and AT&T price gouging us or Blue Cross from dropping us from coverage when they don't want to pay for the services we gave them money to pay for when we needed it." ~ TB3

I agree with this, sir. It is not for providing "free" healthcare or "free" college education or "cash for clunkers" or whatever "free" giveaway that someone has to pay for sooner or later.

Further, you are also correct that I don't want a complete lack of government, as anarchy would ensue, just as I am sure most liberals don't want a completely expansive and invasive government dealing with every aspect of their lives. Some militant leftists might, but I think they are typically a small minority. Again, this was hyperbole to point out absurdity in the pro-government expansion mind-set, my friend.

Jerry Critter said...

TP — “I can be bought with a tax policy that causes job growth and an increase in our nation's GDP”

However, that is not the tax policy that you have bought according to the data I presented earlier (and you ignored). So, take a look at it again.

Tax rates and GDP.
https://angrybearblog.com/2017/12/tax-rates-v-real-gdp-growth-rates-2.html

Taxes should go up, not down, for a greater growth in GDP.

You can say that correlation is not causation. That is true. However, you cannot have causation WITHOUT correlation. That means given where our existing top marginal tax rate is, a decrease in the tax rate will not cause an increase in the growth rate of the GDP.

You are buying a pig in a poke.

Darrell Michaels said...

Dave, I am not even going to bother addressing your same tired old diatribe where you tell us what you THINK conservatives think (lugenpresse, apathetic toward the poor, and hating anyone that doesn't think like us) while complaining when I give examples of Leftist thinking.

Jerry, why only 75% on 5 or 10 million a year income? Why not on 2 million or even 1 million a year? After all, nobody needs that much money, right? Besides, there are many leftists that KNOW that every rich person only got that money by exploiting or cheating the poorer among us. I am not saying you are one of those folks thinking this, but I bet there is someone reading this blog that does!

Darrell Michaels said...

With all due respect to the angrybearblog, I'd be happy to make a bet with you that barring any other outside influencing world events, 2018 will show a significant increase in GDP which can be directly tied to this policy, sir.

Lowering of tax rates in the past during various administrations (i.e. Harding, JFK, and Reagan to name a few) saw an increase in federal receipts. Unfortunately, as in the case of Reagan's administration, we spent even more than that newly increased incoming revenue, thus further adding to the national debt.

Frankly, I would have far preferred to see a new federal budget that focused on infrastructure, national security, and waste/entitlement reform that cut spending where warranted and balanced the budget before a tax cut was ever done. That said, I am hopeful that some aspects of this will occur in 2018.

Jerry Critter said...

TP — “Jerry, why only 75% on 5 or 10 million a year income? Why not on 2 million or even 1 million a year?”

I would add brackets above what we currently have at levels below 10 million.

Dave Dubya said...

Dave, I am not even going to bother addressing your same tired old diatribe where you tell us what you THINK conservatives think (lugenpresse, apathetic toward the poor, and hating anyone that doesn't think like us) while complaining when I give examples of Leftist thinking.

Well, fine. Don’t address my points. A little evasion and projection go a long way. But what do I know? I'm just another commie, right? That’s all you and your sidekick need to “know”. End of discussion.


TB3 said...

"TB3, I understand and appreciate your point on the bonus, but the fact is that AT&T didn't have to give anyone a bonus."

You're right. They didn't. I'm happy you feel such positive emotions that that's how well AT&T thinks of you and your work ethic. Going back to the original Trickle Down comment. Don't you think it's be more efficient if, instead of relying on the generosity of employers to give out PR Bonuses, that this Tax Cut could have more effectively gotten money into your hands by just giving you more? Why are we relying on our employers, who already have us in a life-altering stranglehold, to divy up the windfall they received from us? Why the need to trickle down when we can just cutout the middleman?

As for your 75% comment, I still don't understand. I promise I'm not being dense on purpose. The government wouldn't tax someone's income at 75% or 90% or 95%, so I'm really having trouble figuring out the joke.

"I agree with this, sir. It is not for providing "free" healthcare or "free" college education or "cash for clunkers" or whatever "free" giveaway that someone has to pay for sooner or later."

But a giveaway to corporations who already didn't pay 35% taxes? A giveaway to already wealthy families who now won't have inheritance income taxes because "it's been taxes already" or whatever excuse they're trying to get to stick to the wall now? You don't see the benefit of society taking the money it has collected from itself and using it to make healthcare accessible? Or education? Or training? You don't see how unshackling companies from the burden of employer provided insurance wouldn't give them a competitive edge?

And Re: absurdity of pro-government expansion: It's not fair of you to KNOW that it's a minority opinion but to present it as "leftists" or "liberals". You're not being honest to those you engage with or those that read these conversations. I would never in a million years want the government anywhere close to many personal aspects of my life. However, reading your arguments, I'd imagine you think I'm some totalitarian monster because I'd prefer that the people with the most money to spare, spare more of it to help the society we're all a part of.




Dave Dubya said...

TB3,

I'm some totalitarian monster because I'd prefer that the people with the most money to spare, spare more of it to help the society we're all a part of.

This is what makes us “commies” in their propaganda. They won’t even dispute or retract the accusation. It is demonization, false beliefs, and ultimately bad faith discussion in this thread. It is at the heart of con-servative propaganda.

Mr. Paine got caught in demonstrating his propaganda with “you didn’t build that”, and evaded all discussion afterwards. This is a long established pattern when they are called out for falsehoods. There is no defense left, so retreat is the order of the day.

The same dogma will be repeated though. We are ignored when we present evidence and reasoned points, so they must construct their own reality. It’s the way of con-servatism. It is why Trump is president. It is why more wealth will trickle up. It is why the rest of us will be left with the tattered remains of an economy that works for the few over the many. The economy serves the rich while we serve the economy. This is con-servatism.

Jerry Critter said...

TP — “Lowering of tax rates in the past during various administrations (i.e. Harding, JFK, and Reagan to name a few) saw an increase in federal receipts.”

First, I am not arguing an increase in federal reciepts. I am talking about increasing the rate of GDP growth.

Secondly, the top tax rate for Harding was 73%, JFK — 91%, Reagan — 69%. All significantly higher than our old rate of 39.6%.

I would rather believe the data than depend on a hope and a pray for “some aspects” to become true.

TB3 said...

"Secondly, the top tax rate for Harding was 73%, JFK — 91%, Reagan — 69%. All significantly higher than our old rate of 39.6%."

Let's not forget that the Economies of 1922, 1963, and 1986 all drastically differed from that of the Economy of 2017 with different pressures, different concerns, different reasons and different economic realities.

Just the Facts! said...

Commie Dave, you have no points.

Remember all that leftist "stuff" about how the new tax plan would benefit banks and how the overseas money wouldn't come back? Another lefty forecast proven wrong. LOL

AP 29 December 2017
Goldman Sachs expects to take a $5 billion hit to profits for the fourth quarter and year because of the tax overhaul signed into law last week.

The New York bank on Friday became one of the first to release details on
how changes in the tax code will affect how money parked overseas is
handled.

Two thirds of the $5 billion are due to changes in repatriation taxes, when funds are returned from overseas, according to Goldman. The remainder includes the effects of the implementation of the territorial tax system and the
remeasurement of U.S. deferred tax assets at lower enacted corporate tax
rates.'
The new tax overhaul imposes a discounted one-time levy on money held overseas - 15.5 percent for earnings held incash or other liquid assets and 8 percent for earnings held in harder-to-sell assets.
It would be a big one-time hit for Goldman, which had been expected to
post fourth-quarter net income of $2.07 billion, according to banking
analysts polled by FactSet. The bank reports earnings in mid-January.
U.S. companies had found ways to legally park money overseas to avoid the
higher U.S. corporate tax. It has been expected that changes in the law
would prompt many companies to return money to the U.S., potentially
$2.5 trillion or more.

After taking a hit on repatriated earns, Goldman, and other banks, will operate in a much more favorable tax environment.

TB3 said...

Why'd you stop there, JTF!? The conclusion of that article is fairly interesting...

https://apnews.com/b28f9bb82e42498790ce93cb6da2260d

"Economists believe the overall effect on the economy will be muted, however, because of those cuts to the U.S. corporate tax rate.

Historically, repatriated profits have not had a broad effect on the U.S. economy anyway.

A 2004 law temporarily cut taxes on repatriated profits to 5.25 percent, from 35 percent. That led 843 companies to bring back $312 billion. But those companies tended to use the money to buy back shares of their own stock, not to hire or expand operations.

Goldman also said part of the reduction to fourth-quarter earnings comes from recalculating the value of it deferred tax assets. Those are past losses that companies can use to lower future tax bills. Goldman and other banks suffered huge losses during the financial crisis. Those assets will now have less value because of the lower corporate tax rate.

The effect of the tax changes on Goldman Sachs was revealed in a filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission early on Friday.

The company did not say how changes in the tax law would affect its decisions on investments going forward, and did not immediately return messages left early Friday.

Shares of Goldman Sachs Group Inc. fell 1 percent to $254 in early trading."

Dave Dubya said...

Ad hominen attacks: Still OKIYAR. It's the universal authoritarian reaction.

Their frustration is clear and their anger is palpable. Obviously I am hitting a nerve. They hate being cornered by their lies and cult beliefs.

Perhaps JTF, MM, and Mr. Paine should examine why this is so.

But then again, they have it all figured out, don't they?

All they have to do is believe..it FEELS soooo self righteous.

Majormajor said...

News commie Dave will hate as it shows President Trump is MAGA


Marquette University and the Institute for Supply Management-Milwaukee said their seasonally adjusted index on manufacturing in the Milwaukee region rose to 65.57 this month from 59.62 in November.

The December figure was the highest since November 2014 when it was 68.9.

A reading above 50 indicates regional factory activity is expanding.

The upbeat snapshot of upper Midwest business activity coincided with a jump in a similar measure for the Chicago area.

On Thursday, MNI Indicators and ISM-Chicago said their jointly developed Chicago Purchase Management Index rose to 67.6 in December, the highest since March 2011.

The Marquette University and Milwaukee ISM survey’s component on new orders, a proxy on future activity, increased to 88.33 from 66.46 last month, while its production gauge improved to 72.65 from 57.94.

TB3 said...

You're being petty. You C&Ped the whole article except the last paragraph. Here you go:

"Not all the components improved in December. The survey’s employment index fell to 58.67 from 61.73, while its six-month outlook gauge slipped to 71.43 from 73.33."

https://in.reuters.com/article/us-usa-economy-milwaukee-ism/u-s-upper-midwest-factory-sector-grows-fastest-in-three-years-idINKBN1EN19G


Jefferson's Guardian said...

Hey Chuck! You never told me you worked in agriculture. Tell me...is it harder to reach or stoop when picking those cherries? LOLOL

Majormajor said...

"upper-midwest-factory-sector-grows-fastest-in-three-years"

Says it all!

Lefties hate America becoming great again.

Majormajor said...

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics( BLS), the unemployment rate for black Americans is the lowest it has been since the year 2000, 17 years ago. In November, the national unemployment rate for black Americans, ages 16 and over, was 7.3%.

MAGA

Majormajor said...

ATT layoffs

“Technology improvements are driving higher efficiencies and there are some areas where demand for our legacy services continues to decline, and we’re adjusting our workforce in some of those areas as we continue to align our workforce with the changing needs of the business,” the company said. “Many of the affected employees have a job offer guarantee that ensures they’ll be offered another job with the company, and we’ll work to find other jobs for as many of them as possible.”

Read the last sentence.


Majormajor said...

Commentary: President Trump starts to rack up wins.

Meanwhile, many of Trump's enemies are still harboring their go-nowhere fantasies of impeachment.

The recent revelations concerning sexual harassment and abuse have somehow worked to Trump's advantage despite his own sordid history and the allegations against him. Numerous big-time Democratic lawmakers and Trump antagonists who have long portrayed themselves as champions of women have been revealed to be not only serial harassers but also hypocrites.

Then there is the fake Mueller investigation, and the FBI collusion with the DNC

Majormajor said...


Peter Hasson

Since President Donald Trump shocked the country with his victory in the 2016 election, Democrats have attacked Trump with the accusation that he — or at least his campaign — colluded with the Russian government’s hacking of Democratic emails during the campaign.

And yet, as 2017 draws to a close, NONE of the four investigations into Russian election meddling has turned up any evidence of collusion.

Prominent Democrats have long asserted as fact that the Trump campaign colluded with Russian hacking of Democrats’ emails, despite LACKING evidence to support their accusations.

“I can only tell you that there is absolutely no collusion. Everybody knows it,” Trump told The New York Times on Thursday. “And you know who knows it better than anybody? The Democrats.”

Jefferson's Guardian said...

Chuck, did you actually finish high school, or opt out with a GED? ;-)

Majormajor said...

Nice try but another BIG fail from the lefty.
As we all have come to expect.

Jefferson's Guardian said...

Initial Jobless Claims released by the U.S. Department of Labor released on 12/28 was higher than expected, and continues the flat thrend we've experienced throughout 2017. Analysts attribute this to a weakening U.S. Dollar.

Personally, I see this weakening occurring - and occurring dramatically - as the U. S. Dollar is usurped by other currencies as the reserve currency around the world.

This has dire consequences for this economy, no doubt, and could result in our currency's total collapse. Any thoughts on how this government will react to this?

Majormajor said...

WOWIZER more gloom and doom, where have you been for the past 8 years?

Better question is "what would Obama do"?

Or "What would HRC DO"?

Or "what would Bernie do"?

Jefferson's Guardian said...

As gold continues its rise, and crypocurrencies soar to astronomical heights, investors are abandoning the U.S. Dollar as the traditional safe haven. The BRICS nations are collaborating to establish their own "world bank", while undercutting the U.S. Dollar and trading their own currencies and bypassing the Dollar as the previously agreed upon petrocurrency in the world - thus assuring further deterioration. As degradation and abandonment of the U.S. Dollar continues, inflation (which has seen more of an upsurge this past year than in the previous eight) will continue to accelerate and push down the value of the Dollar.

Will Trump, and his newfound friendship with the neocons, see no other solutions other than military actions against Russia and China, et al, to restore hegemony to the U.S. fiat currency? Certainly something to be on everybody's radar as Trump and friends initiate increased "adventurism" around the globe this coming year and beyond.

We live in troubling times - times which tax cuts will not sidestep or circumvent or correct. Watch for the signs, gentlemen (and you, also, Chuck), as we're forced to place our trust in the most bizzare, incompetent and unstable president in this nation's history to deliver us out of harm's way.

Majormajor said...

And lefties want us to take them seriously?

HuffPost editor Emily McCombs tweeted Friday about her desire to “kill all men” as part of her New Year’s Resolutions.

New Year’s resolutions:
1. Cultivate female friendships
2. Band together to kill all men — Emily McCombs (@msemilymccombs) December 29, 2017
McCombs, who serves as the “Editorial Director of Parents” for HuffPo, previously wrote an article in November titled, “I Don’t Know If I Can Raise A Good Man.”

TB3 said...

Why, exactly, do you take that seriously, than?

Majormajor said...

When have you ever doubted the HUPO?

Jefferson's Guardian said...

Please share with us, Chuck, what Emily McCombs has to do with the posted topic? Is Ms. McCombs an expert in the new tax law?

Majormajor said...

More proof you lefties can't be taken serious about anything.

LOL!

Jefferson's Guardian said...

Chuck, as TB3 asked earlier, what, exactly, do you take seriously?

Jefferson's Guardian said...

The title and subtitle to an interesting article in The Guardian this morning...

"Donald Trump's jobs promise just about holding up but trouble may lie ahead -- Jobs lay at the heart of the president’s campaign but, while employment has continued its Obama-era upward trend, the figures mask lurking structural issues."

Here are the concluding paragraphs:

Elise Gould, senior economist at the Economic Policy Institute, says slow wage growth has been one of the central mysteries of the recovery. It may be explained by the large number of people who have remained out of the workforce.

In April 2000 81.9% of 25- to 54-year-olds ('prime-age adults', in the jargon of economists) were in the workforce. That fell to 74.8% in December 2009 and has since risen to 79%. There was no meaningful pickup in the pace of improvement in Trump’s first year in office. The rate increased by an average of 0.7% a year between 2013 and 2016. From November 2016 to November 2017, this share rose by 0.8%.

The slow rate of recovery and the remaining 'slack' may mean that employers maintain the upper hand in wage negotiations as the pool of workers expands with the slow return of people to an improving job market.

But longer term, says [Maurice Jones, chief executive of Local Initiatives Support Corporation], structural problems will remain for disadvantaged communities if they are not given the skills and training they need to get into today’s jobs market.

'The real work is still to be done,' said Jones. There is 'great pride and incredible talent' in the rural and urban communities that have yet to see the benefit of the recovery, he said. 'But without the proper training it’s difficult to see how they will benefit.'

His big fear following Trump’s tax cut is that the kinds of programs needed to get people back into the jobs market are exactly the kinds of programs that will be cut as Republicans search for ways to pay for their tax plan.

'By 2025 the US will need to fill 16m jobs in 'middle skill' positions,” said Jones. 'That’s not going to happen organically.'

So for Trump – elected on a wave of economic populism – 2017’s jobs report is at best a pass.

Now with his tax bill passed he will have to prove that his policies can deliver the kind of broad-based economic recovery America has been missing. Without it he will face an economic backlash of his own.
"

Indeed. And with Trump's aptitude for creating bigger problems for himself due to his inability to hold his tongue, and the GOP's condition of at least 4.3% annual GDP to make this new tax bill pay for itself, is it any wonder that Democrats, liberals or leftists cannot take this new tax law seriously?

And this is the least of our worries lurking out on the horizon. Wrong president; wrong party in power, during these turbulent and extraordinarily unpredictable times.

Jefferson's Guardian said...

But of course, let's not forget that this tax bill's utter failure will be the pretext to slash Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security for millions of sick and handicapped, and elderly Americans.

Watch. It's coming down the pike.

Dave Dubya said...

JG,
this tax bill's utter failure will be the pretext to slash Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security for millions of sick and handicapped, and elderly Americans.

As sure as day turns to night.

And guess who will decide who the “truly needy” are and who gets the shaft? The rich angry con-servative white guys of the neo-Aristocracy. In fact, they want to rule over the majority of Americans who disagree with them. It is called tyranny.

Speaking of tyranny.

Say, isn’t it very NAZI-like of our conservative friends to call us commies? I’m suspecting they really do have tiki torches in their garage, for they seem to be “very fine people”.

Amirite?

Jefferson's Guardian said...

"I'm suspecting they really do have tiki torches in their garage..."

They probably buy them by the dozens from ACE Hardware. ;-] Don't let 'em know IKEA sells them also.

Watch the attack on Medicare get ramped up as this atrocious tax law tanks...

TB3 said...

JG,

That's a lot of text to expect MM to read. At least preface it with 'News lefties will hate' so he'll know his opinion of it without needing to read it.

Jefferson's Guardian said...

Thanks, TB3, for your insight. Of course you're correct. I should have known better. Must be the teacher in me.

Dave Dubya said...

'News lefties will hate'

And here I thought they hated “fake news”, like FOX(R), Breitbart, and Trump spewing lies for the brainwashed Cult of Con-servatism.

Damn commies don't even know what they hate apparently.

It's a good thing they have the "Tiki Torch Toters" to teach them.

Majormajor said...

Thanks Commie Dave for again proving my point.

Happy New Year to you and your fellow lefties as you watch America becoming great again

P.S. Recommended reading The Naked Communist.

TB3 said...

What point was that exactly? You posted a bunch of random, unrelated to TP's submission, C&Ped half-articles that had no relation to one another. You're throwing stuff at the wall and nothing sticks.

Dave Dubya said...

TB3,

MM’s point is we are “leftist commies” for disagreeing with him. Nothing more.

Ad hominem attacks are the last bastion when cornered by their lies and disinformation.

We can’t expect reasoned and informed dialogue, can we? Authoritarians have no use for that stuff.


TB3 said...

What a sad point to try and make. Man. If only he'd want to talk about all the points brought up instead of talking around them. Might influence some minds instead of looking like a middle school hypeman. It's like trying to converse with a Trumpian Flava Flav.

Dave Dubya said...

MM saying we are commies is the tip of their fruitcake iceberg. And it fits a dark pattern from history.

What a Cult of hate and ignorance looks like:

Survey results released by YouGov Friday show that 51 percent of Republicans said they think former President Barack Obama was born in Kenya, compared to just 14 percent of Democrats. Perhaps unsurprisingly, respondents who voted for Donald Trump in the 2016 election were especially convinced of Obama's African origins: Fully 57 percent said it was "definitely true" or "probably true" that the 44th president came from Kenya.

And yes, a large percent also think Hillary ran a child sex ring out of a pizza parlor.

There is no more accurate term for them than cult. The Cult of Right-wing Authoritarian Personalities. The CRAP is why American democracy is dead.

These hateful idiots are feeding from this fake news, and voting for a far Right party that sucks power from the evil intent behind it.

This is American Con-servatism folks. These are the fools who think they will make America great. It is nothing short of the Great American Tragedy.

And yes, it is fascism. And what did Nazis call their enemies? Commies. And what was that term they had for journalism?

I'll stop now. Our host has heard enough of the ugly truth about his fellow travelers, how evil and hateful many of his fellow con-servative Christians can be at their core.

I do have to wonder why he doesn't lecture them more on how to be "true conservatives". Maybe they already are?

Happy New Year all.





Jefferson's Guardian said...

Happy New Year, all! (Yes, you too, Chuck!) Temperature check: What's your local temperature right now on this frigid new year's eve? It's 19° here (Northern Virginia). Gonna get colder as we head into the first week of the year.

Majormajor said...

When ever Commie Dave starts using the words cult and manna you know you're getting under his thin leftist skin.

Just think it was only 95 years ago, that the USSR was formed, mankind last best chance at s perfect world, right comrades?

Jerry Critter said...

You know, Dave, those are really sad numbers. They are really a depressing statement on the condition of the American voter. I mean, even 1 in 7 democratic voters believe Obama was born in Kenya? A democracy demands an educated and engaged electorate. We are losing that, and the result is Trump!

We are in trouble when even an intelligent (sounding, anyway) person like TP supports Trump's policies. His out is that he has problems with Trump as a person. 🙄

TB3 said...

If that were true, what's the endgame here, MM? You get under Dave's skin. So what? Are you just admitting that you're just here to troll? Are you the troll dwelling under the Saving Common Sense bridge? Here's hoping 2018 provides you other avenues and chances at finding more rewarding hobbies.

Dave Dubya said...

TB3,

When ever Commie Dave starts using the words cult and manna you know you're getting under his thin leftist skin.

I’m flattered MM wants to make it his personal goal to get under my skin. It’s not about issues after all. MM needs to make it personal. This has always been his MO. This authoritarian characteristic is tweeted by his Dear Leader Kim Jong Don every day.

Being the target of lies from these authoritarians does the opposite of getting under our skin.

These demented attacks are badges of honor for sane and compassionate souls defending truth in the new American Dark Age. They wouldn’t know, because they have no honor. They think loyalty to their Dear Leader is the same thing as honor. “Loyalty, loyalty, loyalty”. The Authoritarian follower creed.

I can’t help but be amused by MM’s Freudian ad hominem projections.

When trapped by lies, and exposed as a cult, all he has left is his pathetically clichéd far Right “commie card”.

This is when he’s tapped out. He has nothing left but to declare victory and scamper off. Which isn’t saying much, since he’s never on topic anyway.

Mr. Paine hasn’t exactly frowned on MM’s new characterization of me. I would wonder if this indicates he concurs. I wouldn’t be surprised. It seems one can be a gun grabbin’ commie even as a firearm owner invested in the market. But we’ve learned how much sense they make with limited facts and words twisted into meanings suited for them alone.

Crazy talk and nonsense have never gotten under my skin. Just as facts and reason never get through their fevered ideology.

They can never know us as well as we know them. It eats them. It infuriates them. They fear what they don’t understand.

Of course, in their cult indoctrination, this is all Commie Talk, as instructed by our Stalinist Leader Alinsky.

See what I mean?

Majormajor said...

All I have to do Commie Dave, is post the truth and it gets under your skin.

Truth destroys all leftist.

Dave Dubya said...

How authoritarian of MM!

He needs to TELL me what gets under my skin. LOL!

Priceless.

Jefferson's Guardian said...

I'm going to start this brand new year by asking a question. Chuck, are you one of the over 50% of Republicans who believe Barack Obama was born in Kenya? How about you, Mr. Paine? Are you also part of the majority of polled Republicans believing this also? 🤔

Jefferson's Guardian said...

Happy new year, Mr. Paine! Maybe it's time to take off the party hat, pop a few aspirin, and get started on a new post. I believe we've beaten this dead horse into oblivion.

Jefferson's Guardian said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dave Dubya said...

JG,

I would be curious if they are among the Republicans and cons who believe Barack Obama was born in Kenya.

I also don’t expect an honest answer from birthers because they are not responding in an anonymous poll.

It would be interesting to see how many of the cult beliefs I listed at my blog are held by these guys. They’ve admitted to several already.

Majormajor said...

Lefties will ignore these.


One of Hillary Clinton’s wealthy pals paid $500,000 in an unsuccessful effort to fund women willing to accuse President Trump of sexual misconduct before the 2016 election, The New York Times reported Sunday.

Susie Tompkins Buell, the founder of Esprit Clothing and a major Clinton campaign donor for many years, gave the money to celebrity lawyer Lisa Bloom who was working with a number of Trump accusers at the time, according to the paper’s bombshell report.

After The New York Times on Saturday published a story headlined "Republican Attacks on Mueller and F.B.I. Open New Rift in G.O.P.," WikiLeaks couldn't stand it anymore. In a late-night post on Twitter, WikiLeaks revealed that a Times reporter used to feed State Department email updates of the stories the paper would be publishing DAYS before the stories appeared.

At the time, Hillary Clinton was the Secretary of State.

The heads-up email was intended to give State (and Clinton) time to come up with some spin for stories that may have caused problems.

The players in the WikiLeaks email are interesting. Scott Shane is the national security reporter for the Times. And the recipient of his email, Philip Crowley, was at the time the United States Assistant Secretary of State for Public Affairs under Clinton’s State Department.

Dave Dubya said...

JG,

MM is dodging your question. His silence tells us he cannot deny being a birther. Just as I predicted.

He's a true believer in his Dear Leader. Of course he would think Obama is a Kenyan Muslim.

Just the rest of his brainwashed CULT.

TB3 said...

"Lefties will ignore these, because since I never cite anything I Cut and Paste, they have no means of independently verifying any claims I ever try to pass off as my own thoughts"

SAD.

Jefferson's Guardian said...

TB3, you're learning very quickly that Chuck doesn't think. Instead, he merely reacts toward anybody who provides clear evidence or reasoning ability. He's antagonistic toward those who exhibit critical thinking skills and are able to poke holes in commonly-held beliefs, concepts or practices.

I've accused him over the years of being the "perfect soldier", for he follows his chosen ideologies and ideologues without question and without haste. Dave has since labeled him cultist, whose adherents follow the same behavioral deficiencies.

He frequently regresses into his other monikers when trapped and realizing he's been outsmarted -- which obviously is all the time.

Dave Dubya said...

Teaser quote for MM:

"Nothing like getting under the skin of lefties like I did today. I fight to win."

The rest from his fellow authoritarian is at davedubya.com, of course.

Just thought he'd get a tingle from it.

Majormajor said...

As predicted, lefties ignore what I posted and return to scripted posts.

IE: cult, manna, authoritarian, Dear Leader, indoctrination, Con-servatism.

You can find examples of these in any of their posts,

TB3 said...

...Scripted posts? You're the one literally cutting and pasting from other sources.

Dave Dubya said...



“Manna”?

FAKE NEWS! FAKE NEWS! FAKE NEWS!

This is the second time our flawlessly accurate MM mentioned “manna”. Nobody else ever has.

Now why would he replace “Mammon” with “manna”? Maybe he can’t bring himself to type, or even recognize, the word ‘MAMMON”.

Giving the rich huge tax cuts, and giving permanent tax cuts to corporations, is “manna” alright. But it aint from Heaven.

It’s from their bought-and-paid-for liars and servants of Mammon. The Party of Trump.

For some reason our con-servative friends would rather not discuss what Jesus said of the rich. So it’s no wonder they don’t like the word MAMMON either.

Majormajor said...

It was brilliant that Obama built up an economy that would take off and grow AFTER he left office and Trump was elected.

So a 2% growth rate is great but 3% is tanking the economy?

LOL

TB3 said...

You really must stop talking about things you clearly have no understanding of.

https://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdp_glance.htm

Since you won't look at the link, it's a graph made by the bureau of economic analysis that refutes your incorrect statement.

Jefferson's Guardian said...

TB3, unfortunately Chuck doesn't believe any supporting evidence that may in any way refute or diminish his cultish beliefs. Dave Dubya is dead-on in his critique of the current conservative mindset, which Chuck exemplifies to a "T".

Chuck has no interest in scientific or economic inquiry or analysis, and is only interested in spewing unsubstantiated "fake news" and his own brand of hyperbolic propaganda.

You were totally correct in your earlier accessment when you accused him of being nothing more than a cyber troll underneath a crypo-illusionary bridge.

Darrell Michaels said...

Happy New Year to all of you gentlemen. I wish you all good health, prosperity, and peace in the new year.

As for the myriad comments, I did read them all but was simply too busy to respond to them. I enjoy discussing and debating with all of you, but I have a life outside of blogging and frankly that is more important to me. Rest assured, if I don't always respond to Mr. Dubya's (etc.) latest accusations (which are really all of the same old ones again and again and again), it isn't because I am hiding or frightened by his towering intellect or iron-grasp on the "facts". Often times it is nothing more than the fact that I have either already addressed his assertions and accusations in the past... multiple times, or they simply don't warrant my bothering to render a response. Now if you will excuse me, I simply must go find more oil for my tiki torch.

By the way, I have been working on a new post sporadically over the past week that I will hopefully have out later today, if only my work load will cooperate.

Cheers to you all!

Dave Dubya said...

I don't always respond to Mr. Dubya's (etc.) latest accusations

What accusations? Who's accusations?

Perhaps I should just shut up like a good commie? See my latest blog post for a perfect example.

In the meantime, I salute your double standards.

Your friend,

Gun owning democracy advocate, and market investor "Commie Dave"

Happy New Year.





Dave Dubya said...

it isn't because I am hiding or frightened by his towering intellect or iron-grasp on the "facts".

This is comforting and flattering, but I still don’t know what you meant with “you didn’t build that”. What exactly is “that”? You never did address this question. Maybe I missed the point and this is an example of a greater towering intellect or iron-grasp on the "facts” beyond my comprehension that must forever go unexplained.

Or was it just a “feel good” insult for Obama taken out of context? I’m guessing there may have been some hate behind the remark that is the reason it will not be explained.

I understand some con-serative talking points are above question. This must be one. Some far Right bumpersticker slogans just feel too good to be questioned.

Thanks anyway.

Your friend,

Gun-owning democracy advocate, and market investor "Commie Dave"

Darrell Michaels said...

Dave, President Obama was criticizing business owners in his "in-artful" comment. Of course we as a society have created our infrastructure of roads and bridges for ALL of us, including businesses. Of course we have educated (supposedly) our children through public education. Of course we all contribute to support our first responders who protect us. That happens for all of us, private citizens, and business owners alike. We built that together. And those businesses that fail despite our wonderful community infrastructure etc., did those entrepreneurs build that failing business on their own? Or is that also society's fault?

Many of us, businesses and individual citizens, will fail at times in our lives. Successful businesses and citizens, of course, have not gotten where they are on their own; however, they are in charge of their own future and successes by virtue of their ideas, determination, hard work, and even luck. So in that context, they DID build that successful business.

President Obama's statement clearly suggests that the success of any given business would not have been possible without government. Duh. Our towns and societies wouldn't have been possible either, so why couch the obvious in such terms if not to be confrontational?

I am certain that my response will be unsatisfactory for you. The truth often is to some folks.

Oh, and by the way, I am racking my brain trying to remember if I ever called you a commie. I don't recall having done so; therefore, I am confused by your implications that I did.

Dave Dubya said...

Mr. Paine,

Thank you for responding.

You’re context was:”Leftism assumes that everyone cannot make it without the assistance of the government, ("You didn't build that!").”

I’d like to see where you can quote “Mr. Leftism” saying this, BTW.

Obama was not “criticizing business owners” as you framed it. Nor was he simply praising the government for helping people. You got the point, but framed it as “criticizing business owners”. That was not his point at all. It was about the “unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive.”

Here are the words:

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me — because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t — look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.
If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.
The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.


“You didn't build that!” and “Apology tour” have been dishonestly used by the Right to smear Obama. You know this is true.

You have not called me a commie directly, but in the past have expressed the idea my views were akin to that.

However, your sidekick has made sport of it. I don't care, but its there. And your tolerance for it would indicate agreement more than objection.

I'm sure you and he know I'm not a communist, but it feels good to think so, perhaps?

I invoked the possibility of tiki torches in the same satiric way.

But I won't call you or MM a Nazi. I have some standards, and perspective. It's too much to ask from others. It is the Trump era, isn't it?