Monday, January 23, 2017

Racism Redefined

Yep... enough said.


Burr Deming said...

Well, perhaps not quite enough, Mr. Paine.

Perhaps you could provide a single example of someone who said of Obama, in 2016 or any other time, that "If you criticize the President you're racist."

You are, as you have explained, pressed for time. If you find a moment, perhaps you could provide a single example of someone who said of Trump anything like "I hate the President and anyone who disagrees with me is a racist."

T. Paine said...

I'll give you a first hand example, Mr. Deming.


I was routinely criticized on my blog, Facebook, and especially on other blogs for being a racist because I disagreed with President Obama on POLICY. And now, even though I did not vote for him nor do I fully trust him, I have stated that people should at least give Trump a chance to get into office and make some policy decisions before criticizing him. I have personally been called one of the fascist, homophobe, sexist, racists that elected him accordingly.

The race card seems to be the last bastion of debate for less-thoughtful leftists than you are, my friend. If I disagree with them, it simply MUST be due to the fact that I am suffering from "white privilege" and am a closet racist. It's okay though. I can take it... especially when I consider the ignorance of the sources of the epithets.

Burr Deming said...

Thank you, T. Paine.

As my President, at least he was, wisely said, trust but verify.

The links to those routine comments on your blog will certainly be available. Perhaps you can provide one example, maybe even two, that said, of Obama: "If you criticize the President you're racist."

Then, if you feel especially generous, maybe one that said, of Trump: "I hate the President and anyone who disagrees with me is a racist."

Unknown said...

It's difficult to cite the Strawman, Burr. He routinely falls apart.

T. Paine said...

Okay, Mr. Deming, I will make an exception for you because you are a friend. I don't normally succumb to such "challenges" as that sets a precedent for every crackpot that visits my blog to make demands. That said, below are sections of comments from my post, The Genius of the Electoral College:

"Obama takes the lion's share of ISIS creation in Iraq..because he followed Bush’s SOF agreement the Iraqis demanded. Bush started the war. ISIS was formed in 2006. You and Trump blame the black guy. Con-servative ideology says “Liberals are to blame for everything”. You are an ideologue. Why do those who say they value “personal responsibility” never, never, take any? Why should they? Just blame the black guy and liberals." ~DD

The implication here is that my disagreement is not on policy but on the skin color of the president.

And another quotation, "You are the whitest of the whites, my friend. You have zero sensitivity and only animosity toward non-Republican Blacks. And it shows." ~ DD

And comments made to me from that same individual from that person's blog:

"However, you and other leftists have also told me that I am racist and "hate the black man in the White House" because I disagree with his policies. You assign motives to my disagreement that simply aren't so and assume it is because of the color of his skin pigmentation." ~ T. Paine

"Again, my question is WHY do you choose to say the crap racists love to say???? Does it make you feel superior and righteous? If so, then you and [David] Duke share more than just his words, but share his hate and his lies. Just because some hateful black Republican says something, doesn't mean it is true, or ok for whites to wield as a bludgeon. Ah, but Republicans never lie do they? Well, that settles it. They are a cult. One thing is certain. Most racists lack the insight that could tell them they are racists. Are you one of them? I hope not, but you invite the label at any rate. Herr Trump divides us with rallies for his voters! That is an open slap in the face for most Americans. THAT is how you divide Americans. But Obama "divided" America? No, the racism in white America divides us. The hateful demonizing from the Right divides America." ~DD


"You and TP and David Duke all proudly sing the same song, but not a racist in sight, amirite? How are we to tell the difference? We just have to trust the wisdom and honesty of the Far Right. I mean the the wisdom and honesty of the "not racist" far Right." ~DD

And these are just recent examples, Mr. Deming, from my own and other's blogs. If I wished to do so, I could go back eight years and find similar stuff because I disagreed with leftist policies championed by President Obama. Cheers to you, though. (And to you also, Mr. Unknown "strawman" commenter.

Burr Deming said...

Thank you, T. Paine.

Sorry I haven't had a chance before now to look at the examples you thoughtfully provide. For the most part, they strike me as overwrought and unfair. You are right to treat them as such.

None of them advocate proposition you ascribe to them: that "If you criticize the President you're a racist."

Not every unfair comment directed at you is an endorsement of that generalization.

"Your comment criticizing Obama was a racist comment" is not the same as "If you criticize the President you're a racist."

Some policy statements made by some people really are racist. If someone calls a policy statement racist, that person is either correct or that person is wrong. Expanding that into an accusation that the individual said something that was not said is simply another falsehood.

T. Paine said...

I appreciate your response, Mr. Deming.

It would seem to me that you are making a distinction without a difference, however. If an ensuing political debate is NOT discussing the topic of race, and I am told that my comment is racist because it disagrees with that of President Obama, then surely you can see my perceived slight over the implication and largely-held assumption that "only racists make racist comments."

To me, as a hypothetical, if we are discussing the federal funding of education and I am against simply throwing more money at the problem, and I am greeted with the retort that I am opposing President Obama on this simply because he is black... well what would any sane person tend to gather from that comment?

I understand your point, but I respectfully disagree. Regardless, I'll let you have the last word on this if you so choose.

Burr Deming said...

Thank you for your invitation. This is a little long, so please bear with me.

Let's take your own example. Your correspondent perceives an assertion that Obama is responsible for ISIS because he withdrew from Iraq. He sees that as an absurd argument, as to I. He tells you why. So far so good.

He further reasons that the absurdity is so obvious that there must be another, deeper reason for your argument. I am not willing to follow that conclusion, but, if I did not know you, I might entertain the suspicion. He then suggests that the actual reason must be racism. I would be unwilling to make that leap.

That does not imply a more general statement: that every criticism of the President is racist. Your leap to that conclusion is not justified. You do tell him that your criticism is on policy only, and that race plays no part in it, presumably because you can look within yourself and see no racism.

Your antagonist objects to that defense. Your self evaluation is no defense at all, since racists generally do not recognize that they are racists.

The debate has degenerated beyond repair. Your guest is responsible.

Had I been your correspondent, I might have voiced the suspicion. Had I been you, I might have added a caveat: You are not conscious of any racial motivation. But, as you may suspect, I am neither you nor your opponent. I am who I am and I'm pretty much stuck with that.

T. Paine, your critic's unreasonable attack does not include a more general accusation "If you criticize the President, you are racist."

So here's the verdict.

He says, unreasonably: You are making an absurd argument, and no actual reason is possible except that you are racist.

You respond, unreasonably: Your accusation of racism is absurd, and no actual reasoning is possible except that no non-racist criticism of Obama is ever possible.

You end up winning because you own the blog site and can smear lots and lots of folks for saying something none of them have ever said, something with which they would, in fact, disagree.

You can even add "Yep... enough said." As if it is.