Many of our brothers and sisters on the left side of the
political spectrum have consistently raised the valid issue of foreign
interference by Russia in our election dating back to 2016. Indeed our various intelligence agencies have
provided evidence to support this charge thus giving it fairly irreproachable
credibility, notwithstanding President Trump’s misspoken words in the past and
his down-playing of this issue for whatever reasons to the
contrary.
Despite this, it appears that Russia’s tampering and
interference produced no credible evidence to suggest that they swayed the
election’s results regardless. Yes, this
is a grave matter, and President Trump should have been quite forceful with
Putin regarding this to prevent it from happening again in the future. His milquetoast response towards Putin did
nothing to negate it from happening again and only serves to provide his political
critics with more fodder to claim collusion and thus develop other conspiracy
theories against him. It is readily
apparent that Trump missed a huge opportunity at the Helsinki summit to take
Putin to task about this matter accordingly.
Because of these reasons, our friends on the left have good reason to be
critical of President Trump, despite some of the excesses and more ridiculous
conspiracy theories they have fabricated after the fact.
One must wonder though, how much of this outrage is nothing more
than a whole lot of light and very little heat over the supposed issue at hand? Are our leftist friends truly angry at
attempted foreign influence in our elections that for all practical purposes
had no discernible effect in the election outcome, or are they simply using
this as a political issue in which to further excoriate a president whom they
loathe? I am sure that there are some
leftists that are indeed truly concerned about the issue, but for most of them
I suspect the latter is actually the case.
I point to that bastion of looney leftism known as
California to support my assertion. Many
conservatives have long been concerned about illegal immigrants voting in our
elections. Indeed there have been a few
cases here and there where this occurred and the illegal alien was caught, charged, and convicted. Of course we were mocked, scorned, and the
focus of derision by our leftist friends for thinking this could ever seriously
become a real issue though.
That was soooo last year.
Now, we have the city of San Francisco issuing voter
registration cards to illegal aliens residing within the city.
Yes, all people should be afforded basic human rights and
protections regardless of their legal status, but voting rights used to be
reserved ONLY for American citizens.
Until now –
The supposed reasoning behind San Francisco supporting this
policy is that there are so many illegal immigrants’ children attending public
schools there that the city government thought it was only right that they
should be given a voice to how things were run.
City Supervisor Norman Yee said: “We want to give immigrants the right
to vote,” while conspicuously leaving out the “illegal” prefix.
These “immigrants,” illegal or not, will be allowed to vote
in all city elections if they’re at least 18 and are the parents or guardians
of children who also live in the city. Local ABC 7 affiliate reports:
"As a parent myself and a former member of the SF Board of Education it is critical that the voices of all parents are at the table, particularly those that have historically been denied a voice in the process,” said Supervisor Sandra Lee Fewer who represents District 1.
School Board member Matt Haney was the co-author of the resolution endorsing the measure. He says the school board was in full support of it. “I think it’s critical that all of our families have a voice in the governance of our schools,” said Haney.
While San Francisco is the very heart of the leftist beast
of California, evidently there still remains one brave Republican living in the
city that had the courage to disagree. Harmeet Dhillon is the Republican
National Committeewoman from California. She says she voted against the measure
in 2016.
“The reason I voted against it is that I think the right to vote is something that goes along with citizenship and should be,” said Dhillon. She states in a common sense fashion that the SF school board is already obligated to look out for the interests of all the children attending schools in the district. “I don’t think that people who have otherwise tenuous ties to San Francisco given their lack of legal residence should be making long term decisions about that structure and process,” said Dhillon.
I would find myself in complete agreement with Ms. Dhillon.
Let’s summarize, shall we?
Many leftist friends and family are understandably and rightly outraged by the attempts
at foreign influence in our elections by Russia, but evidently in the city of San
Francisco in the very center of the progressive beast, they evidently see no
contradiction or even any issues with allowing foreign nationals to vote in
city elections by granting them legal voting privileges.
Of course, I and many of my conservative brothers and
sisters can hardly be surprised by this latest nonsense from Nancy Pelosi’s congressional district. After all, San Francisco
really isn’t a city that truly functions well anymore. There exists no middle class there at all at
this point as the average home price exceeds 1.6 million dollars. The city has become a mecca for the uber-rich
and the perpetually poor. As a "sanctuary city" they continue to attract illegal aliens to their city limits whom are looking for protection from ICE and other law enforcement agencies. The
needle-laden and human excrement infested streets give proof to the brokenness of
the city. San Francisco barely survives
currently by massive tax payment transfers from the rich to the myriad homeless
street people that live in the city. It
is a perfect example of the abject failure of social and political
progressivism. Enfranchising poor
illegal immigrants with voting rights in the city of course makes perfect sense
to our leftist brothers and sisters as the next logical step in their
progressivism.
It doesn’t, however, give very much credibility to their
concerns of illegal foreign influence in our elections.
17 comments:
Well said Mr.Paine.
Thank you, sir.
How are you feeling and doing, by the way? I hope you are feeling well, considering the circumstances.
Obviously, I agree and it's why I changed my registration from Democrat for over 50 years to now unaffiliated... Li9stening today to the hearings with Pompeo showed me how far I am from the left right now.
"Despite this, it appears that Russia’s tampering and interference produced no credible evidence to suggest that they swayed the election’s results regardless."
You're falling for the talking points, TP. You're using past-tense as if the investigation has come to it's conclusion. Furthermore, if you read the order for the appointment of the Special Counsel, you will note that nothing about it was to determine if the Russians 'swayed the election'. What you're repeating here is the narrative spun by the Right-Wing Media circling the wagons to protect to protect the President.
"His milquetoast response..."
Oh, come on TP. This was an excellent opportunity to break out your favorite word of the Obama administration! Feckless. His feckless response towards Putin did nothing to protect our Nation from Putin's machinations in the future. It was right there for you, TP.
"One must wonder though, how much of this outrage is nothing more than a whole lot of light and very little heat over the supposed issue at hand?"
This One doesn't wonder about the outrage at all. This One wonders about the outsized defense for this President and his activities in such a way that seems hypocritical in regards to responses to past administrations. One side of the political spectrum had to sit through four years of the Ken Starr investigation... I think it's only appropriate that those same people who insisted that take its course, allow Mueller's to take its course.
"Are our leftist friends truly angry at attempted foreign influence in our elections that for all practical purposes had no discernible effect in the election outcome, or are they simply using this as a political issue in which to further excoriate a president whom they loathe?"
If I spraypainted the outside of your house, would you not be upset? I mean... the graffiti, for all practical purposes, would have no discernible effect on your ability to live in the house.
"I point to that bastion of looney leftism known as California to support my assertion." and "leftist beast of California"
Looney leftism. Leftist beast. It's terms like that that make me think you really don't care about finding common ground with those you disagree with.
"Many leftist friends and family are understandably and rightly outraged by the attempts at foreign influence in our elections by Russia, but evidently in the city of San Francisco in the very center of the progressive beast, they evidently see no contradiction or even any issues with allowing foreign nationals to vote in city elections by granting them legal voting privileges."
Concise summary. Know what the difference between a bunch of undocumented immigrants living in a community voting for the school board and Russia hacking our system and sending Bots and Trolls throughout social media to spread propaganda? Of course you don't know the difference, that was a silly question. Otherwise you wouldn't have tried to insinuate what you insinuated here.
"Enfranchising poor illegal immigrants with voting rights in the city of course makes perfect sense to our leftist brothers and sisters as the next logical step in their progressivism."
1) You don't actually explain your problem with this or how it's harmful. You simply compared it to hostile activities by a hostile government. Russian Meddling in our electoral process is not the same as giving members of a community a voice in how schools their kids go to are run.
2) Enfranchising undocument immigrants isn't exactly a new concept for our country. We have a rich, varied history of granting suffrage, taking it away and granting it again going all the way back to our founding. There's nothing "Leftist" about it.
Mr. Paine,
I feel GREAT!
I'm loved by a wonderful beautiful wife that I don't deserve, my sins have been paid for by the act of Jesus taking the penalty of my sins on the cross, not because of any merit on my part, for I have none, and I therefore stand guilt free and forgiven before God, my son earned his PHD in June from UCSD (now both my kids now have PhD's!), the sun came up today on the greatest nation in the world that can become even greater under our President Trump, I have no credit card debt, my heart procedure is set for 8/7/18, my cancer seems in remission, and after 6 back surgeries, a knee replacement and 6 other various operations I am sure that whatever my God ordains for me is right. He will not fail me.
"finding common ground"
There is no common ground with the left.
"There is no common ground with the left." -- MM
This is such an unfortunate thing to say. Yet another false-hood that you're forcing yourself to believe, MM. Left, Right, Middle. We're all Americans and we're all, despite what the conspiracy websites and blogs you frequent say, in this together. Just because one person has a different solution to an issue than you, does not mean you lack common ground.
Despite the numerous things you and I seem to disagree one and the names you've called me, there is common ground. I, like you I imagine, hope for only the best for you and your procedures and medical challenges you face away from the keyboard. I hope you have a clean bill of health after your procedure in just over a week. There's some common ground between you and I.
Just because I think there's nothing wrong with San Francisco allowing more members of its community to vote for school board and you don't agree with it, doesn't mean we can't find common ground in other things. T.Paine made a wonderful point about the income disparity in San Francisco. I think that is problematical as well. I think the cause of it is a little more nuanced than T.Paine's blame of social and political progressiveism, but there's common ground there with disagreements on cause and solution (or lack there of).
Rain, I understand your sentiments. I have long ago stopped supporting the GOP for many of the same reasons.
"You're falling for the talking points, TP. You're using past-tense as if the investigation has come to it's conclusion. Furthermore, if you read the order for the appointment of the Special Counsel, you will note that nothing about it was to determine if the Russians 'swayed the election'. What you're repeating here is the narrative spun by the Right-Wing Media circling the wagons to protect to protect the President." ~ TB3
I am painfully aware that Mueller's investigation is still continuing and what its original mandate was. I am fine with it doing so and want him to be able to go where the facts lead him. That said, I am very skeptical about the impartiality and objectivity of this investigation. The loads of issues and unprofessional FBI agents assigned to it alone are enough to cause serious doubt. That said, it should continue until its conclusion. If there is real evidence of legal violations, then the responsible parties including if it is the president, should be punished accordingly if convicted. All of that said, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if nothing of consequence is found as far as the evidence is concerned, but a scathing report will still be released right before the mid-term elections.
Next, "milquetoast" can be changed out for "feckless" if you prefer. I think that term is appropriate in this case. :)
"If I spraypainted the outside of your house, would you not be upset? I mean... the graffiti, for all practical purposes, would have no discernible effect on your ability to live in the house." ~ TB3
I am not sure your analogy is appropo. Spray painting my house would not affect the livability of it inside, but it would decrease the property value through its vandalism. Allowing a few illegal immigrants to vote in city elections because their kids go to school there might at initial glance seem appropriate until you realize that often times these same illegal folks work under the table or with falsified SSN documents etc. thereby not contributing their taxes to funding of said schools. It undermines the credibility and thus the integrity and value of our elections. I guess in retrospect, the analogy of yours is not so far off after all.
"Looney leftism. Leftist beast. It's terms like that that make me think you really don't care about finding common ground with those you disagree with." ~ TB3
Of course I wish for common ground. I even acknowledged and agreed with many leftists and their anger over Trump's response to Russia in Helsinki. As for my colorful descriptions of California in general and San Francisco in particular, I don't think that is too over the top for an opinion piece. It certainly doesn't rise to the hate-filled rhetoric one might find at say... DaveDubya.com. :)
"Concise summary. Know what the difference between a bunch of undocumented immigrants living in a community voting for the school board and Russia hacking our system and sending Bots and Trolls throughout social media to spread propaganda? Of course you don't know the difference, that was a silly question. Otherwise you wouldn't have tried to insinuate what you insinuated here." ~ TB3
Yes, I understand the difference between illegal foreign nationals that often times don't pay taxes to support the school district to which their kids attend voting in local elections anyway, and that of Russian foreign nationals spreading propaganda in order to try and influence votes in a national election. The former is a case of a U.S. city allowing non-citizens here illegally the right to vote to affect the course of a local UNITED STATES institution. The latter is a ham-handed attempt to propagandize those that are easily swayed by such bilge on Facebook and such in the hopes of sowing chaos. The former actually will have actual results regarding election outcomes by virtue of these folks' votes. The latter hopes to sway legal citizens into voting in a particular way. Their propaganda is simply one more election-cycle advertisement among myriads of voices that tries to sway the uninformed, ignorant, and easily manipulated.
Do you truly not see the harm in illegal foreign nationals being given voting rights in local city elections? What if their votes become a plurality or a majority that surpass that of legal residents in the city? Does it become a problem then, sir?
Majormajor, I LOVE your spirit and attitude! I am praying for you, buddy. Sounds like you have already been through quite enough already.
As for your kids, you must be very proud. Knowing you, they are good people and contributing to making this world a better place.
Unfortunately, I must disagree with you on one point. I think there absolutely can be common ground between conservatives and liberals. I think that we can even find some commonality with our brothers and sisters that are dyed-in-the-wool leftists. Not all of them are hate-filled malcontents. Further, we still have things in common with those that are. We simply must not become like them in their rage and hate and rather continue to use love, compassion, and logic to try and persuade them in finding areas where we can come to agreement. It seems a daunting task, but I truly believe that with some folks, it can indeed be done.
I think good folks, such as TB3, Woodenman, Jerry Critter, and others that are actually willing to discuss issues are reasonable people. TB3 is right. We may not always agree on the exact causes or solutions to a problem, but ultimately, I think we often times want the same things on a large scale for our nation and communities. These are things we can build upon. I am hopeful that it will be so, albeit we may have to go through a time of extreme hate and strife to finally get to that point. We shall see.
TP,
I love when you've got the time and inclination to engage in conversation. I enjoy it when you join in on the broader discussion. Part of why I am sad Saving Common Sense is going to be shuttered. Though I am sure the Movie Reviews blog you start in its place will be just as interesting. :)
"The loads of issues and unprofessional FBI agents assigned to it alone are enough to cause serious doubt."
Unprofessional in the broadest sense, sure. Non-work related, politically-oriented texts on company phones is a far stretch from an investigation being politically charged/compromised.
"All of that said, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if nothing of consequence is found as far as the evidence is concerned, but a scathing report will still be released right before the mid-term elections."
I won't be surprised and I'll be relieved if that is the case. However, Regardless of what comes and when, I fear that work is being done now, before the investigation is wrapped up, to muddy the waters and discredit the work.
"I am not sure your analogy is appropo."
It certainly is apropos. I'm saying what you said but changed some nouns and verbs. The Left is upset that a foreign government has meddled with our elections but with no obvious proof that they had any effect on the elections. The T.Paine family is upset that TB3 spraypainted their house but with no obvious proof this vandalism affects their ability to live in said house. I am trying to point out the ridiculousness of the attitude you expressed. I'm pointing out despite the obvious proof of the any effect on our elections/no obvious proof it affects the ability to live in said house still pisses a person off and want to see retribution in some way. :)
"It certainly doesn't rise to the hate-filled rhetoric one might find at say... DaveDubya.com. :)"
I really shouldn't have taken a sip of my Coke while reading this.
"Yes, I understand the difference between illegal foreign nationals that often times don't pay taxes to support the school district to which their kids attend voting in local elections anyway, and that of Russian foreign nationals spreading propaganda in order to try and influence votes in a national election."
You think San Francisco would open up voting for undocumented immigrants if they weren't contributing in some form or fashion to the economy? They get parking tickets, they pay cab fare, they pay public transit, they pay the 8.5% (Yikes) sales tax when they buy goods. They contribute, so San Francisco is giving them the opportunity to help guide the school board in what's best for their kids.
"The former actually will have actual results regarding election outcomes by virtue of these folks' votes."
Right. Which is what San Francisco wants for their community. Illegal or not, they're still a part of the community and they're giving these people a bigger stake in their community. Ownership of it. Sucks they didn't come here legally, but they're here and participating in society. I would think Conservatives would find this virtuous.
"Do you truly not see the harm in illegal foreign nationals being given voting rights in local city elections? What if their votes become a plurality or a majority that surpass that of legal residents in the city? Does it become a problem then, sir?"
Heaven forfend. The people that live within the city limits be allowed to help guide the city's school board in a city that they are a member of. What exactly scares you about that prospect? It's the city's choice. They have the ability to make this decision and Conservatives and flipping out over an exercise in local autonomy?
Mr. Paine,
Liberal yes, leftist no. I said leftist not liberals.
TB3,
Do you know what is being done to prevent those illegals voting in local elections from voting in Federal elections?
How's the weather in Alhambra today? I understand the latest wild fire in the LA Basin was the work of an arsonist. Hope they caught the SOB.
MM,
State laws?
"...Part of why I am sad Saving Common Sense is going to be shuttered. Though I am sure the Movie Reviews blog you start in its place will be just as interesting. :)" ~ TB3
Touche'! Now you made me nearly spit out my soda when I read this. lol. I think in all of the years I have done Saving Common Sense that I may have only done one or two movie reviews. I don't really see that changing in my next project.
"Unprofessional in the broadest sense, sure. Non-work related, politically-oriented texts on company phones is a far stretch from an investigation being politically charged/compromised." ~ TB3
Ohhh, come on now. "We'll stop him", "We've got a backup plan if he gets elected", and such similar comments are hardly what one would expect from an objective and professional lead investigator. Surely you would agree if Peter Strozk had been caught saying such things while investigating Obama's malfeasance. Correct?
"However, Regardless of what comes and when, I fear that work is being done now, before the investigation is wrapped up, to muddy the waters and discredit the work." ~ TB3
I guarantee you that this is being worked on right now to discredit it. Depending on the findings, it may or may not be successful. If the findings are minimal against Trump, the left will scream and feel vindicated at such lawlessness by trying to make it a bigger deal, while the right will pooh pooh it and say that they were right about this being all a big witch hunt about nothing. If there are genuine high crimes and misdemeanors found, I will side with those calling for appropriate charges to be filed and prosecuted. Lord knows they weren't in various past Democrat administrations though. Justice is evidently only meted out against the right. I still support the rule of law regardless.
"I am trying to point out the ridiculousness of the attitude you expressed. I'm pointing out despite the obvious proof of the any effect on our elections/no obvious proof it affects the ability to live in said house still pisses a person off and want to see retribution in some way. :)" ~TB3
Ridiculousness?!?! You wound me, sir! :) Surely you don't think this is simply a matter of vengeance for me. It is about the rule of law. Something as sacrosanct as voting and elections should never be minimized in their importance. That right, which is so carelessly protected now, is something actual Americans fought and died for in obtaining.
I recall seeing people in Iraq actually getting to vote for the candidate of their choice for once, instead of 99% of the "vote" going to Saddam Hussein. I recall them proudly displaying their purple inked finger or thumb after making their mark on the ballot to actually vote their conscience after so much war, fear, death, and intimidation were temporarily curbed. And yet, we so cavalierly are willing to give up our right to vote to others not legally deserving of it "because they live here too." They live here in violation of our laws, my friend.
"You think San Francisco would open up voting for undocumented immigrants if they weren't contributing in some form or fashion to the economy? They get parking tickets, they pay cab fare, they pay public transit, they pay the 8.5% (Yikes) sales tax when they buy goods. They contribute, so San Francisco is giving them the opportunity to help guide the school board in what's best for their kids." ~ TB3
Yep, but many of these folks probably aren't paying property or income taxes which is where a vast majority of the city's revenue for funding schools come.
I am heartened when people participate and take part in their communities, especially when they educate themselves and vote accordingly. What I don't agree with is when people that have not earned that right to vote are given that opportunity any way. Outside of love itself, nearly everything that is given for free is seldom appreciated or valued. We cheapen our institutions and our republic by affording such sacred rights and responsibilities to those that have not earned that right by coming here through illegal means. I realize that my reverence for the process, even in local city politics, may seem archaic or overly dramatized, but once upon a time this was the attitude for all Americans, especially those that had to fight for the right to participate in our democratic republic through voting their conscience.
"Heaven forfend. The people that live within the city limits be allowed to help guide the city's school board in a city that they are a member of. What exactly scares you about that prospect? It's the city's choice. They have the ability to make this decision and Conservatives and flipping out over an exercise in local autonomy?" ~ TB3
The people that live within the city limits ILLEGALLY should not be given a voice into how tax payers dollars are spent when they are not contributing their legally fair share through income and property taxes often times. Further, is it really so far of a jump to think that as San Francisco goes that Los Angeles and Sacramento and other big cities might not follow with their large illegal population? It is simple to go from there to allowing it state wide and over-turning any state laws that might currently prohibit it. It's not like the state's whacked attorney general will fight it.
On a tangent, we are having thousands of Californians fleeing that crumbling state and coming to Utah. They have fled the "paradise" their progressive nonsense has created, sell their two bedroom home for $750K and move to Utah to buy a mansion on the hill for that price. They then proceed to insinuate themselves into the community and tell us we are wrong because we aren't doing it like they did back in the hell hole they just escaped. Trump is right that we need a wall. He is wrong on the location. It needs to be built around California. :) (And that comes from a man who's daughters and late wife were all born in the state.)
MM spews, I said leftist not liberals
This is regurgitated Prager CRAP again. Gospel to the Right. Only the authoritarian far Right claims the unilateral authority to define others and demonize dissent. It is who they are and what they do. They blame, they accuse, they lie and they hate. In a “good Christian way” of course. Just don’t call a Right-wing authoritarian an authoritarian.
(SF) It is a perfect example of the abject failure of social and political progressivism.
This is how cons blame all problems on liberals. Urban issues are more complex than he cares to consider. As if Republican-run cities like San Diego, Forth Worth and Miami have no crime and poverty. IOKIYAR. Shame on this hateful arrogant bigotry. Ironically they see no sin in this hate.
As for my colorful descriptions of California in general and San Francisco in particular, I don't think that is too over the top for an opinion piece. .. It certainly doesn't rise to the hate-filled rhetoric one might find at say... DaveDubya.com. Not all of them are hate-filled malcontents....We simply must not become like them in their rage and hate and rather continue to use love, compassion, and logic
Thank you sir! I feel the love. May I have another?
If there is real evidence of legal violations
There IS no “if”. Is Mr. Paine unaware of the lies under oath, numerous contacts with Russian agents, the indictments, convictions and pleas?
Strozk is gone. This is just more irrelevant whataboutism, And there was NO EVIDENCE of bias in his work. Period. Beat that dead horse. Trump likes that very much.
Justice is evidently only meted out against the right. (Nonsense. More of the patented far Right “Victim Card”.)
That right, which is so carelessly protected now, is something actual Americans fought and died for in obtaining. Common ground, sir. The Party of Trump actively suppresses that right with minorities. See Georgia for their latest treachery against democratic representation and consent of the governed.
But liberals and the press are the “enemy”. And the enemy is to be hated. Just follow Trump and the far Right into that blazing hatred.
TB3,
I fear that work is being done now, before the investigation is wrapped up, to muddy the waters and discredit the work.
Mr. Paine and MM seem happy as pigs in that very mud. Trump and Putin appreciate their support. After all, they are the real victims here.
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