“I have a dream that my four little children will one day
live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but
by the content of their character.”
~ Rev. Martin Luther King
As America sadly takes note of the 50th
anniversary of the death of Dr. Rev. Martin Luther King at the hands of a vile assassin,
I am reflecting on the events and the progresses we have made since the 1960’s
and am contemplating if we have seen the fulfillment of Reverend King’s dream
come to pass yet. While the issues that
our parents and grandparents had to contend with regarding race relations have
improved dramatically, are we still so far away from seeing the fruition of
that dream?
Indeed there are so many achievements that have occurred with
race relations in America and wonderfully wild successes by people of color
over the preceding fifty years. From
elected officials of color in state and local jurisdictions across the nation,
to representation in the United States Congress and Senate, we have seen what
was once thought of as not only unlikely, but unfathomable for black Americans. Further, we have gone from having a
segregated military to having Colin Powell serve as the Chairman of the Joint
Chiefs of Staff and thus the highest ranking member of the uniformed military under
President George H.W. Bush. We have seen
a continuation of representation on the Supreme Court of the United States from
Thurgood Marshall’s day to the brilliant constitutional jurist of Clarence
Thomas today. In business and academics,
there is not a field untouched by the contributions, innovations, or leadership
by people of color. Indeed, with the
election of Barack Obama, even the presidency of the United States saw a man of
color sitting in the oval office.
There have been truly remarkable and extraordinary advances
in race relations and the continuing eradication of true racism and hatred over
the preceding five decades since the good Reverend King’s untimely death, but
sadly there is still plenty of work that must be done. Even more sadly and even ironically, some of
the biggest unintentional antagonists to racial parity sometimes come from folks that should
be erstwhile allies of Dr. King and his dream.
It has long been my fervent wish, dating all the way back to
my junior high school years when I first became politically aware, that we ALL
could help the late Martin Luther King realize this dream for All
Americans. Sadly, after decades of
incredible progress when it came to negating racism, fostering acceptance, and seeing
each other as human beings first, we now as a nation seem to have slid
backwards some in race relations once again.
And while there are some very small minority right wing
groups that truly do hold vile and repugnant racist views of others simply
based on the color of their skin pigmentation, they are typically easy to spot,
disavow, and ignore for their evil and decidedly un-Christian attitudes towards
their fellow human beings. What is truly
frustrating are the charges of racism by some folks simply because of political
differences that have no bearing on race. This is counter-productive towards eliminating
real racism accordingly. While it is absolutely incumbent upon all good
Americans of conscience to point out, fight against, and help to eradicate true
racism when it raises its ugly head still today, I think that a vastly
overwhelming majority of Americans do indeed enjoin the battle with each other
in just this fight.
America has passed civil rights laws and largely wiped out
the evil legacy of Jim Crow laws; however, the mere passing of laws will not
change all attitudes, and sadly some people will cling to their hatreds and
racism. These people, thankfully, are
small in number and even smaller in their influence.
The compounding of this problem occurs though when misguided
but perhaps well-meaning people see bigotry and point out racism where it does
not exist. Disagreeing with a person of
color on any given issue does not immediately denote racism. Wanting the lawful punishment of those that
break the law, regardless of whether they are black or not, does not denote
racism. Wanting people hired for jobs or
accepted into schools based on qualifications and merit instead of the color of
skin pigmentation does not denote racism.
It does a huge disservice to discerning and eliminating true racism when
we succumb to political correctness or political agendas by fabricating cases
of racism where none exists. Further, by
doing so, we actually set our race relations back in time, as we seem to have
done currently. The breaking of a just law
by any person, regardless of their color, is an indication of the content of
their character, and I know by his own words, that Reverend King would agree in
their just punishment accordingly.
On March 31st of 1968 President Lyndon B. Johnson
told the nation that “There is a division in the American house.” His statement of fact also was one of
prophecy as less than a week later Dr. King was cut down by an assassin’s
bullet. Since that time, we have healed
many of our nation’s wounds when it comes to race relations, whereby a majority
of voting Americans saw fit to elect and then re-elect a black man to the
presidency of the United States of America.
King achieved greatness in the service of a great and noble cause—the
cause of human liberty, helping to replace an unjust order with a new order of
equal rights for all. He didn’t want
special rights for black Americans. He
simply wanted just enforcement of the constitution so that all Americans would
have the same equal rights as promised in that inspired document. Dr. King was
deeply grateful for America itself, for its original and enduring promise, and
its intrinsic propensity for reform. He was grateful for “the best in the
American dream”—for “those great wells of democracy which were dug deep by the
Founding Fathers in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.”
Today, we can honor his memory and further seek equality and
justice for all Americans not by “fundamentally transforming America” as our
previous president stated, but rather by preserving and perfecting it.
Has Reverend King’s dream of judging not by the color of one’s
skin but by the content of one’s character been fully realized yet today?
No.
However, if we put aside our partisan politics and stand
together in denouncing TRUE racism as brothers and sisters all created in the
image of God, then perhaps one day soon we will be able to see that noble dream
finally come to its full fruition.
Reverend King said, “We must learn to live together as
brothers or perish together as fools”.
He was right.
64 comments:
The main problem today seems related to the legal system and police as to whether racism is still a factor that is undoing much of what was gained. While minorities can get into universities, get jobs in major industries, are they unfairly singled out by the police, stopped too often and shot when a white would not be? I don't have the answer because numbers don't tell it all. Do the police react as they do because they are more often assaulted or face deadly force from minorities? Do minorities commit more of the crimes or are they singled out? I hear various answers from people and don't know myself. Certainly, when a minority is stopped because they are driving an expensive car, that is racist. Seriously, the cop could find out if the car had been stolen without pulling it over. So there is some bias for sure. Some though of the violent interactions have come because the minority was potentially breaking into cars or homes looking for crimes of opportunity. When they are told to stop, do they run out of the fear that is being ratcheted up by groups like BLM? I'm not a minority and hence don't know.
One answer seems to pay more money to the people who police our streets and provide more training. Can we do more to help minority families stay together as white or black, single parent homes experience more problems with raising kids. It seems like we are a deteriorating society with some incredibly divisive things going on that make it all worse. I hope that's not true.
I read some things about MLK and his attacks on capitalism, which may be giving us the most inspiring things he said but ignoring others that are less convenient for today. He gave some fantastic speeches that still inspire. It's hard to see us going downhill on some of this to where we end up back with each race distrusting the other. :(
Rain, I understand and even agree with your views to a large extent, dependent upon additional context.
I truly believe that most police officers are good people doing an exceptionally difficult and often dangerous job. That said, when an officer uses excessive or deadly force when the situation is not warranted, the officer should be reprimanded, trained, fired, or prosecuted as the individual circumstances warrant. That is true regardless of the person's color. Further, as per your example, pulling over a black person simply because they are driving an expensive car, can indeed be construed as racist. However, noticing a black person (or white) driving an expensive car in a slum neighborhood could cause an officer to take note of it and to observe if there is anything untoward going on with the driver though. Is the driver in the neighborhood to buy drugs? To sell drugs? To check on his network of dealers etc.? Nice cars in bad neighborhoods are sometimes a sign of something not being right. Further, arresting a larger number of black people in a predominantly black neighborhood is not necessarily racist but may simple be the law of averages.
As for BLM, as I often told Dave Dubya (not that he ever listened), I think their cause is a good one. No decent person supports racism in the police force. Nobody supports excessive or deadly force being used against people of color when it is not warranted. I fully support the prosecution and incarceration of officers that are found guilty of such abuses of force. All of that said, too many BLM rallies have been co-opted by thugs and punks that think trashing the city with vandalism and assaulting others because of this cause is warranted; it is not. Further when they see racism where none exists, such as the case of the "gentle giant" Mike Brown in Ferguson, that actually harms an otherwise noble cause. Brown tried to take the officer's gun from him and ultimately the officer shot and killed Brown. The officer was exonerated of the charges quickly due to witness accounts of the situation. And yet Brown still became the poster boy for some BLM members as an "innocent" black man shot by a white cop, when the truth was quite a bit different.
I think Dr. King would excoriate Brown for the content of his character that ultimately resulted in his sad death.
I don't have all the answers and certainly don't want to pretend that I do; however, I do try to take each person as an individual and treat them with all due respect regardless of the color of their skin. I wish all Americans could do so without being caught up in politics as a part of making such a choice. Thanks for your thoughtful comments, Rain!
Dave,
I agree with your comment bout Dave...he sees racism at every turn by whites but what is his stance on the Nation of Islam? Or the photo of Obama and other black leaders laughing it up with Rev Farrakhan?
Dave's silence on that photo says it all for me, blacks can not be racist..
Just think if a photo of President Trump before taken before 2016 popped up showing Trump laughing it up with the Grand Dragon of the KKK? What do you believe would be the reaction of leftist?
In the world of the left, the color of ones skin is ALL you are judged on.
"However, noticing a black person (or white) driving an expensive car in a slum neighborhood could cause an officer to take note of it and to observe if there is anything untoward going on with the driver though." ~~ T. Paine
So...what's the crime? Driving while black?...or driving a new car in an economically depressed ("black") area?
Congratulations, Mr. Paine! You're a winner! You've successfully met the criteria for exhibiting implicit bias.
Would you like to go for "Double Jeapardy" and qualify for full-fledged racism?
You're helplessly, hopeless.
My apologies, Mr. Paine, it's "Jeopardy".
You still qualify, though! LOL Along with your little buddy!
Majormajor, we both know that the standards are always different for Democrats. Clinton had an affair with a White House intern and then perjured himself and suborned perjury in the cover-up. It was none of our business and we were told to "moveon.org" about it. Trump, if the allegations are even true, had a consensual affair with Stormy Daniels years before becoming president, and the left is salivating over it as it is constantly plastered on the news channels.
Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and other leftists have become quite wealthy at even threatening charges of racism against people and corporations in order to line their pockets. It is a tactic that many on the left employ, as you and I well know. When losing an argument, it is simply easier to scream "racist" for many of our leftist brothers and sisters than to debate the points of fact civilly.
Next, I am not exactly certain how comment moderation was disabled, but I will allow J.G.'s comment to remain despite his persona non grata status because it illustrates one of my points quite well.
Let's look at the specifics. First, I didn't say anything about a "crime" being committed. I stated that an expensive car driving through a economically depressed area (regardless of the color of the driver) might be enough of a reason for a police officer to pay particular attention as to whether any suspicious or "untoward" activity was occurring. Typically, people with expensive cars don't necessarily reside in slum neighborhoods. It is a matter of being alert to the environment for things that may be atypical.
Of course my statement which was race-neutral was already proof to the hyper-politically correct, uber-leftist, Mr. J.G. to immediately assume a racial bias from me which could quickly become full-fledged racism. He provided a prime of example of the very point I was making accordingly.
Instead of seemingly being concerned with true cases of racism, Mr. J.G. sees the specter of it with every conservative with whom he has the displeasure of coming into contact. These fabricated charges of bias/racism actually cheapen and dilute the true instances when this pernicious action occurs.
It comes down to politics instead of actually working with others, including most conservatives, to denounce and combat real racism; to decry the judging by the color of a person's skin instead of the content of that person's character.
Sadly it is a fact that is missed by Mr. Dubya, and even my well-meaning friend, Mr. Deming, as he graciously summarized my article on his blog with a typically characteristic misinterpreting of my words to meet a leftist political world view.
Even more sadly it is a fact that is quite commonplace among our leftist brothers and sisters these days.
Mr. Paine,
Face it, lefties like JG and Dave claim racism at the drop of a hat.
It's all they got. Where is the cry of racism when the Nation of Islam calls whites devils?
The left can not deal with their own racism.
Dave Dubya would say "blame the black guy", but he'd be wrong.
His little buddy would claim it is a conspiracy funded by the Masons, LOL.
The biggest Black Lives Matter page on Facebook was a fake account with ties to a middle-aged white man in Australia, according to a new report.
CNN reported Monday that the “Black Lives Matter” page with nearly 700,000 followers was transferring fundraised dollars to Australian bank accounts and had links to various accounts and websites run by an Australian man.
Facebook only suspended the page after multiple inquiries from CNN, even though Patrisse Cullors, a co-founder of the Black Lives Matter movement, said she had warned Facebook that the page was a scam months ago.
The “Black Lives Matter” page repeatedly linked to websites run by Ian Mackay, an official for the National Union of Workers in Australia.
“A few days after Mackay registered blackpowerfist.com, an anonymous Facebook profile under the name ‘BP Parker’ shared a link to the website. This same profile was an administrator of the ‘Black Lives Matter’ Facebook page until the page was suspended, a Facebook spokesperson has told CNN,” CNN tech reporter Donie O’Sullivan explained.
Sources also told CNN that the page had raised about $100,000 through donations and fundraisers, some of which went to an account tied to Mackay by name.
"Of course my statement which was race-neutral was already proof to the hyper-politically correct, uber-leftist, Mr. J.G. to immediately assume a racial bias from me which could quickly become full-fledged racism." ~~ T. Paine
"Race-neutral" to you, possibly, but fraught with implicit bias in your descriptors -- despite your insertion of the word "white", just to ward off criticism.
I call 'em as I see 'em, Mr. Paine, and I see an explicit motivation on your part to hide behind your very obvious implicit bias against people of color.
Sorry.
JG, I am starting to see your tactics of fault finding with Mr. Paine to be selfish and bone headed. Instead of discussing the incredible things happening politically you are only interested in attacking the host of this forum.
It was pretty cool when there were 175 comments per topic here a while back but you and Dave could not resist getting too personal and aggressive and blowing the whole thing up.
In Ireland they were able to obtain peace even after blowing up each others school buses full of children but you and Dave cannot keep a civil tongue in your head for the greater good.
I did not want to comment here without you and Dave so your actions affect also me. I tried to mediate the situation but to no avail and The Rant is useless with Toms erratic behavior.
"Instead of discussing the incredible things happening politically you are only interested in attacking the host of this forum." ~~ James
Yes, there are certainly incredible events occurring under this corrupt and inept administration, no doubt, however I choose to restrict my comments to the topic selected by our gracious host -- unlike others.
Mr. Paine made a comment which I responded to with clarity and honestly, which he likewise replied to -- which I, again, offered my sincere thoughts and insights to in a follow-up.
You're free to do the same, James, obviously -- well, until Mr. Paine figures out how to incorporate comment moderation again. ;-)
Majormajor, that is actually pretty sad that some idiot scammed people using a fake BLM site. Like I have said, I think that the stated cause of Black Lives Matter is a good one. You, I, and every decent human being would agree that unwarranted deadly force used against people of color should never be tolerated and on the rare occasions when bad officers do resort to such unwarranted force, they should be charged and prosecuted for their crimes.
All of that said, there are far too many folks that have hijacked the BLM movement as a means to act out in lawlessness. Of course when that is called out by us, that simply earns us the epithets of "racist" being hurled at us by some of our more extremist leftists friends. It is something to be taken as seriously as one takes the rest of their rhetoric though. One does find it to get very tiresome though.
"‘Race-neutral’ to you, possibly, but fraught with implicit bias in your descriptors -- despite your insertion of the word ‘white’, just to ward off criticism. I call 'em as I see 'em, Mr. Paine, and I see an explicit motivation on your part to hide behind your very obvious implicit bias against people of color.” ~J.G.
I am certain that you do see “obvious implicit bias” in all of my writing, Mr. J.G. You ignore my point to find that “bias” in this particular case.
Once upon a time it used to bother me, and indeed it shocked me, when I was first called a racist while debating someone from the left many years ago. I was bewildered how such an evidence-free charge could even be made. I have come to realize though in the ensuing years that charges of racism are simply a tactic used by the left to silence or convert those on the right, or are part of a hyper-PC mindset that simply informs many leftists that anyone right of center is by nature a racist.
Frankly I no longer care what unfounded disgusting aspersions are cast my way by unserious leftists. My family and friends, including those family and friends of color, know the truth. My true character matters far more in life than my distorted reputation in militant leftist circles.
Woodenman, you get it, my friend. I am not a shrinking violet and afraid of criticism and constructive debate regarding my writings; however, when it comes down to name-calling and frivolous charges without merit of evidence, it really serves no point to continue debating those folks. It really angers me when such behavior is directed at other folks contributing on my blog.
Mr. Dubya has complained on other forums that I blocked him on a whim, supposedly after he criticized Trump. He simply cannot fathom, I suppose, that I share some of that same criticism of Trump with him, albeit not to the point of manufacturing what has not been substantiated or proven. He doesn’t understand that it was a long running series of insults and name-calling of people on my site that made me have enough of him. Rain in particular, who has never been offensive towards anyone, was even a target for his behavior.
All of that said, I don’t want name-calling, or aspersions cast by anyone on my site, whether it be by J.G., Dubya, or Majormajor or Mr. X.
As for Mr. Degan, you are correct, James, that Tom is erratic. He also has a tendency to miss publishing some of my comments/responses until after other comments are already posted after mine chronologically. I have noticed this happening to several people, so their comments get buried in the thread, assuming Tom even publishes them within a few days after they are submitted. It does render his site as a forum to be very limited in its usefulness.
J.G., I know how to re-enable comment moderation. I am simply choosing to leave things as they are for the time being. We shall see if I come to regret it or not. ;)
Woodenman,
You and I rarely agree on issues, but you are not an anarchist leftist like jG has become. Mr. Paine and I do not agree on a few things, but after stating the differences, he like you and Rain, go on without personal attack.
I thank you for that.
How's the wood working business in the NE with it's endless winter this year? I wish you would get into the wooden boat building business.
"Frankly I no longer care what unfounded disgusting aspersions are cast my way..." ~~ T. Paine
And well you shouldn't, Mr. Paine. However, when you seemed to promote racial profiling by our already militant police forces (i.e., "shoot first; ask questions later"), I couldn't help but voice my objection.
"My true character matters far more in life than my distorted reputation in militant leftist circles." ~~ T. Paine
Just as mine matters far more to those who care about and know me, than any misaligned caricatures drawn by fascist alt-right hooligans.
"I am not a shrinking violet and afraid of criticism and constructive debate regarding my writings; however, when it comes down to name-calling and frivolous charges without merit of evidence..." ~~ T. Paine
I hope you're able to maintain this spirit of reciprocity, Mr. Paine. If not, will you be offended if I remind you when you don't?...or any of your other faithful readers?
[Tom Degan] also has a tendency to miss publishing some of my comments/responses until after other comments are already posted after mine chronologically." ~~ T. Paine
Let's not make the mistaken assumption that Tom Degan should avail himself to meet our needs or anybody else's. Whether he publishes our comments within a time-frame agreeable to us, or even publishes them at all, shouldn't be of concern.
Besides, we don't know whether Tom suffers from some debilitating illness that prohibits him from staying on top of everything like he once did.
Graciously accept what you do receive and move on.
"All of that said, I don’t want name-calling, or aspersions cast by anyone on my site, whether it be by J.G., Dubya, or Majormajor or Mr. X." ~~ T. Paine
and...
"but you are not an anarchist leftist like jG has become." ~~ Majormajor, time-stamped at 11:14 AM
I offer you "Exhibit A", Mr. Paine, for your review and comment.
I would characterize JG as a Liberal activist who walks the talk by spending the time and money to put his body on the line for causes he deems worthy. He has my respect for that.
Careful Woodenman, jG is gonna time stamp you,,LOL
"...when you seemed to promote racial profiling by our already militant police forces (i.e., 'shoot first; ask questions later'), I couldn't help but voice my objection." ~ J.G.
I was promoting racial profiling by stating that an officer could/should take notice of an expensive car in a slum area driven by a white or black man? That is an interesting definition of racial profiling and I don't think that means what you think it means. :)
"Let's not make the mistaken assumption that Tom Degan should avail himself to meet our needs or anybody else's. Whether he publishes our comments within a time-frame agreeable to us, or even publishes them at all, shouldn't be of concern. Besides, we don't know whether Tom suffers from some debilitating illness that prohibits him from staying on top of everything like he once did. Graciously accept what you do receive and move on." ~ J.G.
This is wise advice with which I agree. That said, it becomes frustrating to some of his readers, myself included, when he doesn't timely and accurately post comments. Such is absolutely his right, although I doubt he intends any malice or bias in his actions. I do hope that his health improves regardless.
"but you are not an anarchist leftist like jG has become." ~ Majormajor, time-stamped at 11:14 AM
"I offer you "Exhibit A", Mr. Paine, for your review and comment." ~ J.G.
"Just as mine matters [personal character] far more to those who care about and know me, than any misaligned caricatures drawn by fascist alt-right hooligans." ~ J.G.
I think both of you need to play nicely with others.
"I would characterize JG as a Liberal activist who walks the talk by spending the time and money to put his body on the line for causes he deems worthy. He has my respect for that." ~ Woodeman
I applaud anyone that participates non-violently in our representative republic, even when their ideals and causes are in direct opposition to my own. That said, Woodenman, I would agree with your characterization of Mr. J.G. with one alteration. He is a leftist activist and not a liberal in the original definition and understanding of the word.
"[Jefferson's Guardian] is a leftist activist and not a liberal in the original definition and understanding of the word." ~~ T. Paine
Mr. Paine, I've hesitated to address your little buddy's and your incessant characterization of me as a "leftist", purely because I realize your understanding of the term is incorrect and misleading. "Leftists", by definition, are anti-constitutional. That doesn't even remotely describe me, of course, but you insist on defining me in some monstrous image of an anarchist. Nothing could be further from the truth.
If anything, you're much closer to the definition of a corporate fascist than I am to a leftist. At least I realize that the attribution of human rights to legal fictions, from a constitutionally protected standpoint, flies in the face of what our forefathers envisioned and entrusted to future generations.
You have taken an opposite viewpoint, and because of this are the actual radical anti-constitutionalist in the room.
"I think [Chuck and you] need to play nicely with others." ~~ T. Paine
Your response was anticipated and expected, Mr. Paine. As I've grown accustomed, you continue to shield Chuck and allow him a free pass.
As you'll notice, never did I specifically name Chuck in the clause you cited, yet he specifically named me in his accusatory name-calling.
At least you're consistent!
OH JG, you are so mistreated, I feel your pain.
BTW, I did not send Tom Degan an email begging him to allow me to post on his site that you said I did.
I am not a member of the KKK, a Fascist, a racist,a gun loving member of the NRA, or any of the many other things you and your little buddy Dave have either called me or inferred that I was.
To paraphrase something your little buddy once told me, if you don't want to be called a leftist, then stop acting like one.
"I did not send Tom Degan an email begging him to allow me to post on his site that you said I did." ~~ Majormajor (aka Chuck)
That's not the word on the street...
I am not a member of the KKK, a Fascist, a racist,a gun loving member of the NRA, or any of the many other things..." ~~ Majormajor (aka Chuck)
But are you a supporter of Donald Trump?...
"...if you don't want to be called a leftist, then stop acting like one." ~~ Majormajor (aka Chuck)
Chuck, I never said I didn't want to be called a "leftist"; just wanted to note for the record, that per Mr. Paine's own definition, I'm not.
As already mentioned, because of Mr. Paine's acceptance of corporate personhood (and yours, too, I suppose), I'm more a constitutionalist than he is (and you?).
Don't misunderstand, you can call me a leftist as much as you want. It doesn't offend me in the least. Just wanted to point out you're (both) barking up the wrong tree.
" 'Leftists', by definition, are anti-constitutional. That doesn't even remotely describe me, of course, but you insist on defining me in some monstrous image of an anarchist. Nothing could be further from the truth." ~ J.G.
If someone supports violent anti-free speech groups like antifa and some members of BLM, then I would classify them as leftists. If someone seeks to undermine police officers and the military that serve and protect us, then I would classify them as leftists. If someone works to undermine first, second, fourth, ninth and tenth amendment rights, particularly by unconstitutional means, then they are leftists. And yes, I agree, leftists are anti-constitutional.
If you truly do not fall into any of those aforementioned categories, Mr. J.G., then I sincerely apologize to you. Some of your past statements have at the very least implied that you may fall into a few of these groups though.
Oh, and for the record, yet again, I do not support corporate personhood or many of several aspects of the Citizens United decision.
Corporate entities should not have defacto or implied "voting rights" via political contributions as a person, anymore than unions, non-profits, for-profits, or NGO's should. These rights should be reserved to ONLY United States citizens. Evidently even stating that is "racist" by some open-border leftists these days too though.
"As you'll notice, never did I specifically name Chuck in the clause you cited, yet he specifically named me in his accusatory name-calling." ~ J.G.
Sigh. You certainly gave yourself a very small degree of plausible deniability with that statement. You should have been a lawyer for Clinton accordingly. In light of the conversation that we were having, it was certainly implied that your statement was directed either towards Majormajor or me.
"I am not a member of the KKK, a Fascist, a racist,a gun loving member of the NRA, or any of the many other things..." ~Majormajor
"But are you a supporter of Donald Trump?..." ~ J.G.
Thereby implying that one can despise fascism, racism, guns, and the NRA, but if one supports Trump one is still a monster and worthy of leftist tactics being used against him, right, Mr. J.G.?
Oh, and when it comes to co-equal branches of government, checks and balances, and vehement support for all of our constitutional amendments (particularly in the Bill of Rights), I would literally bet my life that an objective and disinterested judge would find me far more constitutionally-minded and supportive ever single day.
Is that the best you got jG?
Not going to address I(as normal) my post but drift off into some reply of indignation?
Were you a supporter of Obama then you must be a racist with his close relationship to the Nation of Islam, a racist organization.
Word on the street was HRC was going to win, so put your trust in that word. Or find another response
It's entertaining to watch how this post about MLK has devolved into this tangent of name calling and "No, You are!"
Just a note and I'll be gone.
Thank you for all the attention. I'm flattered to be mentioned more than Dr. King himself in this MLK thread.
And thank you for making me a better person. I've learned how truly hateful and willfully ignorant I really am. ;-)
Thank you for defining us as evil "leftists", as we remember how you have long demonized the very word "liberal". Having it both ways is the Right way, amirite?
Fret not, I shall return to exile now. I've learned my place. Thank you very much.
Mr. Dubya, I did not mention you at all in my article, unless you somehow see yourself in the characterization of those that are so quick to falsely cry "racism", sir. I mentioned you in the comment thread in response to others bringing your name up and then hearing that you were reviewing this very article on Mr. Deming's website. Dave, I really don't think you are a bad person at all. I think that it is admirable to want to eliminate racism, which I truly believe you do want to do. I do think you have fallen into the trap of PC leftist propaganda though and see racism everywhere, particularly with those whom disagree with you politically.
As for "liberals", I have not always agreed with everything that they advocated, but I have respect for them for standing for their beliefs and doing so in the spirit of our representative republic through political advocacy and debate. I have very little respect, however, for the militant leftists today whom only wish to demonize others and shut down any contrary viewpoints, even by resorting to violence, in their anti-constitutional ways. Sadly, there seems to be an ever-increasing amount of these fools these days.
TB3, sadly you are correct. Even more sadly, I have allowed myself to become a part of it yet again.
"If someone supports violent anti-free speech groups like antifa and some members of BLM, then I would classify them as leftists." ~~ T. Paine
Fair enough. Certainly your prerogative. My turn...
If someone supports hate groups like the KKK, or supports anybody who supports hate groups like the KKK, then I would classify them as fascists.
"If someone seeks to undermine police officers and the military that serve and protect us, then I would classify them as leftists." -- T. Paine
Also, it's you're prerogative to feel this way. Again, my turn...
If someone looks the other way when police officers knowingly shoot to kill unarmed citizens, or military personnel intentionally kill civilians or torture civilians, then I classify them as fascists.
"If someone works to undermine first, second, fourth, ninth and tenth amendment rights, particularly by unconstitutional means, then they are leftists." ~~ T. Paine
If someone works to sabotage, weaken or subvert the first, fourth, fifth, sixth, eighth, fourteenth, or fifteenth amendments to the Constitution, then they are fascists.
"If you truly do not fall into any of those aforementioned categories, Mr. J.G., then I sincerely apologize to you." ~~ T. Paine
I wasn't fishing for an apology, Mr. Paine, only letting you know you're totally off-base. As I already mentioned, you're not offending me by calling me a "leftist". Some of my best friends fall into that category (as you've chosen to define it).
"...it was certainly implied that your statement was directed either towards Majormajor or me." ~~ T. Paine
You seem to be a tad paranoid, Mr. Paine. Of course it is possible it was a knee-jerk reaction to your "militant leftist circles" insinuation. ;-)
"Thereby implying that one can despise fascism, racism, guns, and the NRA, but if one supports Trump one is still a monster and worthy of leftist tactics being used against him, right, Mr. J.G.?" ~~ T. Paine
You're getting a little testy, Mr. Paine. Unfortunately, your statement seems to indicate that fine upstanding citizens who despise fascism and racism could still support, for example, Adolf Hitler and remain honorable and respectable. They'd still be "good Germans", if you will.
Do you really think that?
(Besides, I'm not familiar with your term, "leftist tactics", unless you're meaning speaking the truth without sugarcoating everything.)
"It's entertaining to watch how this post about MLK has devolved into this tangent of name calling and 'No, You are!'" ~~ TB3
Yes, it is interesting, isn't it?
I'm afraid I tend to twist Mr. Paine into knots, and not purposefully. I'm minding my P's and Q's, but for some reason Chuck and Mr. Paine can't resist going after me with both barrels blasting.
"If someone supports hate groups like the KKK, or supports anybody who supports hate groups like the KKK, then I would classify them as fascists." ~ J.G.
I don't know if that would meet the definition of fascist, but I think a good case of racism could legitimately be made here if a body supported someone in their support of the KKK.
"If someone looks the other way when police officers knowingly shoot to kill unarmed citizens, or military personnel intentionally kill civilians or torture civilians, then I classify them as fascists." ~ J.G.
I would agree with you on this one. Further, those police officers or military members should be prosecuted by the courts or military court martial and punished to the fullest extent of the law possible. When the police or military abuse their power/authority in such instances, they should be made examples thereof for abusing their appropriate roles.
"If someone works to sabotage, weaken or subvert the first, fourth, fifth, sixth, eighth, fourteenth, or fifteenth amendments to the Constitution, then they are fascists." ~ J.G.
Again, I agree with you. See how well we are getting along here, Mr. J.G.! :) ( I did notice you left out the second and tenth amendment though. I assume that doesn't mean it is okay by you to work to sabotage, weaken, or subvert those, right?)
"As I already mentioned, you're not offending me by calling me a 'leftist'. Some of my best friends fall into that category (as you've chosen to define it)." ~ J.G.
If some of your best friends fall into the category of being anti-constitutionalists (i.e. leftist) then that seems to be at odds with some of your previous statements here.
"You seem to be a tad paranoid, Mr. Paine. Of course it is possible it was a knee-jerk reaction to your 'militant leftist circles' insinuation. ;-)" ~ J.G.
Hmmmm... I guess I wouldn't be a tad paranoid if all of the militant leftists weren't out to get me. :)
"Unfortunately, your statement seems to indicate that fine upstanding citizens who despise fascism and racism could still support, for example, Adolf Hitler and remain honorable and respectable. They'd still be 'good Germans', if you will. Do you really think that? (Besides, I'm not familiar with your term, 'leftist tactics', unless you're meaning speaking the truth without sugarcoating everything.)" ~ J.G.
That is interesting. I certainly had no intention of indicating anything of the sort. I will make a wild leap and assume that the implication is that Donald J. Trump is the equivalent of Adolph Hitler in your estimation. While Trump can be legitimately branded with some bigoted and sexist episodes in his past, I hardly think he is on the verge of rounding up people of color and sending them to concentration camps. If he even were to suggest such a thing, I would be writing my congresswoman demanding that she draft articles of impeachment. I think the cries of irreconcilable racism and fascism are a little overblown here.
Indeed, even our "first black president" Bill Clinton said of Obama that, ""A few years ago, this guy would have been getting us coffee". Now that is a pretty racist comment, but I don't particularly think Bill Clinton is a racist in spite of that. (He is a sexual predator and misogynist far outstripping Trump though.) Further, the great LBJ was quoted as making the utterly disgusting racist comment, "I'll have those niggers voting Democrat for the next 200 years", as the Democrat Party realized that they might as well co-opt people of color as political allies since they could no longer deny them their civil rights. While LBJ was a racist and a political opportunist, he wasn't the reincarnation of Hitler either, and many good Democrat people supported him.
The bottom line is that Trump is deeply flawed in many ways and not someone I would want to invite to my home, but he has managed to do some good and needed things in this country. I did not vote for him, and I don't frankly see me changing my mind on that when it comes time for his re-election, but he is hardly the fascist second-coming of Hitler that the left makes him out to be. Further, it diminishes the true evil of Hitler by characterizing one's political adversaries with such disgusting epithets. That hyperbolic demonization, ridicule, and marginalization is what I mean when I say "leftist tactics". I suppose I could say Alinsky tactics, but the terms are pretty much interchangeable.
"I'm afraid I tend to twist Mr. Paine into knots, and not purposefully. I'm minding my P's and Q's, but for some reason Chuck and Mr. Paine can't resist going after me with both barrels blasting." ~ J.G.
J.G. I take note of the fact that you are indeed minding your P's and Q's, hence the reason I have responded to your comments and left comment moderation off. I truly appreciate your restraint in this discussion. Thank you.
By the way, if I were to come at you with both barrels blasting, you would be aware of it. So far I have used nothing of greater caliber than my B-B gun. :)
I guess I am a Leftist also as I would like to see the US spend the same amount of money on the military as Russia. They seem to do quite well spending 60 Billion a year because they do not waste money supporting 1000 bases the world over.
I view the 50,000 troops stationed in Germany for the last 75 years as a colossal waste of money. It is like a welfare program where they get meals, housing and a salary for doing nothing worthwhile that I can see. That goes for most of the bases, even in North Korea, they would of been reunited decades ago if not for our actions.
The world would be a much safer and better place if all the military actions by the US over the last 20 years never happened.
I deleted the first version because of a typo.
"Chuck and Mr. Paine can't resist going after me with both barrels blasting"
Oh you poor man, "I feel your pain".
Of course the fact that you admitted in a conversation with your little Buddy, that you purposefully posted just to irritate others wouldn't have anything to do with it.
Of course not.
So Mr. Paine, don't be so tough on yourself.
Mr. Paine,
I have to deny your accusation. Or maybe it’s simply a regurgitation of an ideological talking point.
I do think you have fallen into the trap of PC leftist propaganda though and see racism everywhere, particularly with those whom disagree with you politically.
Well I don’t see racism in John McCain. I don’t see it in Condi Rice, or many others I have disagreements with. What you did was invoke an ideological weapon utilized to suppress discussion of racism.
For my part, I would simply point out the clear antagonism demonstrated by a sweeping general accusation that I, or anyone, would “see racism everywhere”. That is false and insulting, but I won’t attack you for it. I won’t even ask you to cite specific supporting evidence as I did for past accusations. Evidence was never offered.
I will just state this pattern of false accusation is from your ideological perspective, not a rational, evidence based one. This is manifested by the fact you devote almost twice as many words toward blaming liberals, Black activists, and the Black President for race problems than for White Nationalists, the KKK and Nazis.
Your ideology stands ever ready to accuse others of dishonestly or falsely “playing the race card”, no matter how obvious the racism. Exhibit A is in the White House.
It’s in those who call Nazis “very fine people” where I see racism. It’s in those who had to be ordered twice by a court to rent to Blacks where I see racism. It’s in those who demanded the death penalty for exonerated black youths where I see racism. It’s in those who insist the Black President wasn’t an American where I see racism. It’s in those who say a judge born of Mexican parents can’t be fair where I see racism.
This might make some who believe and support that person feel like they’ve been called a racist. Guess what. If you agree with a racist all the time, you MIGHT be a racist. If you deny obvious racism, you MIGHT be a racist. Just sayin. It’s not like I’m calling someone who likes tax cuts for the rich, less public healthcare, or even dirtier air and water, a racist. There are more appropriate and fitting descriptors.
Do you really think “These people, thankfully, are small in number and even smaller in their influence.” If so, you either don’t see a racist in the Oval Office, or you think a president is even “smaller in their influence”. And you would blame liberals for aggravating racism more than that president, and more than the conservative White Republican legislatures cited by the courts for implementing racially targeted gerrymandering and voter restrictions.
But you go on, without citing evidence, about “PC leftist propaganda” that tells liberals to “see racism everywhere”. How about sharing a centered position that says, yes some may see racism where it isn’t, but some also refuse to see it when it is obvious. Don’t you think there’s another side to the coin? Every day there are victims of racism in this country. “Post racial America” is a lie. Just because Obama won the White House, or other Blacks attain high positions in government and business, doesn’t mean racism is gone. It is as real as ever on the streets of America. Under Trump, the racists, KKK and Nazis are more emboldened than ever to march and recruit.
I would suggest the less you invoke “PC leftist propaganda” and “Alinsky”, the more rational and substantial you will appear. You want to see propaganda? Look at the hate at FOX(R), elevating their Dear Leader above our rule of law, and smearing dedicated public servants, all in defense of the slimiest liar and crook to ever befoul the Oval Office.
This is unprecedented. Sane and rational Republicans are horrified at their Party becoming a dishonorable sycophantic Party of Trump. But apparently you prefer to see a greater threat, a greater evil, in calling that foul creature a racist.
And one other point. White conservatives DO NOT have the sole authority to unilaterally define “true racism”, any more than they have the sole authority to define liberals or leftists.
I’m finished. You may now freely cast more false accusations, or whatever you need to do to deflect, deny, distort or otherwise demean my words.
Thank you. And lastly to be clear, my disagreement with your saying I “see racism everywhere” does not mean I’m calling you a racist.
"the fact you devote almost twice as many words toward blaming liberals, Black activists, and the Black President for race problems than for White Nationalists, the KKK and Nazis."
You counted the number of words? Get a life already.
Woodenman, wanting a smaller military does not make you a leftist.
I do vehemently disagree that all of the last twenty year of military actions were unnecessary though, although a few likely were, while a few others at least were poorly executed. I suppose we could pull back our military and retreat in isolation, but that is partly why WWII happened. Sadly if you remove a force for good in supporting human rights, other bad actors will fill that vacuum. Last, I am certain under Kim Il-Sung, Kim Jong-Il, and Kim Jong-un that there would most certainly not have been a reunification in absence of a U.S. presence unless it was under the North's inhumane "leadership".
You strike me far more as an old-school liberal than as a new-age leftist, sir, based on the things you have written in the past.
TB3,,
Do you think it could be that the question about what Dr. MLK would say today about the Nation of Islam and how Black leaders today do not condemn it's racism but in fact take a photo with it's leader that causes the "drift"?
Maybe it's just too painful of an answer to give, so it's ignored or deflected from?
"What you did was invoke an ideological weapon utilized to suppress discussion of racism." ~ Dubya
Mr. Dubya, respectfully, your political tone-deafness is striking. That is PRECISELY what charges of racism without evidence is: an ideological weapon utilized to suppress the discussion of racism. It is wielded like a cudgel often and without supporting evidence often times on college campuses, in society, and certainly on the internet in order to stymie debate on the topic. Further, if you are honest with yourself, you know you have done this either intentionally or unintentionally yourself in the past.
Next, you seem to forget that I have acknowledged and agreed that SOME of the past transgressions you have listed of Trump's were indeed racist and I condemned him for those disgusting words and actions. As we have discussed ad nauseum, I hardly support Trump "all of the time", and yet even occasional agreement with some of his governing actions is enough for me to be branded a racist, xenophobe, and fascist by some leftist folks that are always quick to lob those terms at their political naysayers.
Continuing, I hardly thought it necessary to devote any time to point out the racism of the KKK, skin-heads, Nazis, etc in my post. That should be readily apparent by definition to all but the most obtuse of Americans. Further, I never blamed liberals or black activists for racism. I blamed SOME leftists and some of the reverse-racist black activists that support violence in the furtherance of their political agenda.
What precisely do you think Trump has done as president that has been racist in his governing? The only thing concrete that comes to mind that could even remotely be used as an example is his attempt to restrict immigration from certain Islamic nations that were unable to properly vet those immigrants. Of course, this is not racist at all, but part of the president's duty to protect our nation, but I understand how reflexive folks could misconstrue this action. Yes, Trump has made racist statements about a Mexican-heritage judge, was the driving force of the birther fiasco, and so on, but I fail to see policies or actions that affect non-white Americans negatively since he has been in office. On the contrary, I see unemployment greatly improving and folks living in poverty diminishing under his tenure.
"How about sharing a centered position that says, yes some may see racism where it isn’t, but some also refuse to see it when it is obvious. Don’t you think there’s another side to the coin? Every day there are victims of racism in this country." ~ Dubya
Can't stop laughing... how about "I" share a centered position?
Yes, racism still exists and sadly there will always be at least a few people that will always remain steadfast in their racism. It is up to you and me to denounce those that truly speak and act in that way. That said, you are completely lost in the fog of politics if you do not see how often the political weaponization of unsubstantiated charges of racism are bandied about by some leftists, sadly even by your own self, sir.
Yes, the KKK and other vile groups have come back out from under their rocks lately and it is up to all good Americans to denounce and ignore them thereby diluting any small amount of power and voice that they may have. They probably number less than a hundred thousand in a nation of over 330 million people. They are insignificant. It does no good to brand everyone that is not left of center as a racist thereby "making" the KKK seem far larger and more influential than the fringe hate group that they truly are, sir.
"I would suggest the less you invoke 'PC leftist propaganda' and 'Alinsky', the more rational and substantial you will appear." ~ Dubya
I would suggest that the less you discount the real-world impacts and prevalence of PC leftist propaganda and their usage of Alinsky tactics by the left, the more rational and substantial you will appear. Hyper political correctness and the shutting down of rational debate by leftists is so common place these days that only someone willfully ignorant of it will not see it.
And yes, Fox News has devolved to right-wing propaganda on many of its opinion shows. I know that disgusts many leftists as only MS-NBC, NBC, ABC, CBS, and CNN should be allowed to be left-wing propagandists. I laugh at the left's outrage over the Sinclair's network and yet have no problem over the inherent leftist bias in the mainstream media's reporting. And spare me the crap that they are "corporate" and therefore not "leftist". They are both, sir.
Majormajor, I think Reverend King would be disgusted with the racism and anti-Semitism of Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam. It is amazing to think that President Obama would have a picture taken with the vile Farrakhan and yet the left screams because David Duke endorses Trump. Trump denounced Duke and said he didn't want his endorsement. Trump had no control over the private actions of a racist citizen. Obama DID have control over having his picture taken with an equally racist Farrakhan. If it weren't for double standards, many leftists would have no standards at all.
And spare me the crap that they are "corporate" and therefore not "leftist". They are both, sir.
So says the incoherent ramblings of a man lecturing us that “Leftists” are “anti-capitalist”. Having it both ways...AGAIN. You can’t even see that, and lecture ME about being blind? You insist that only white conservatives like yourself can define racism and accuse ME of shutting down discussion of racism? That’s cute.
This is what happens when facts are answered by opinions. No mainstream media company defended and praised a president like FOX and Sinclair do for Trump. No matter what your unfounded, evidence-free opinion is. This is UNPRECEDENTED sycophantic state media propaganda! But you cannot admit that fact.
FOX may as well be in his cabinet for all he regurgitates and hires from them. But you want to do the false equivalence of “both siderism” on this.
You have no choice, but to defend the defenders of a treacherous liar and racist. You and your sidekick do it all the time. What else can we expect from authoritarian personalities? And before you whine about that, back the F off on defining me and liberals in your warped hypocritical ideology. IF you think you can define me, I damn well can define you. Yeah, IOKIYAR. We get it.
We’ve heard enough of your praise for Trump and crediting him for the Black unemployment rate going down a whole percentage point in his first year.
Under Obama it went down EIGHT POINTS from the Bush Recession high of 16%.
Not that facts matter. You’d rather throw BS and blame Obama for racial tension, and praise Trump the racist as the Savior of Black jobs.
All this indicates is your bias and low information viewpoint.
Trump denounced Duke and said he didn't want his endorsement.
We recall this happened reluctantly and dismissively as he walked from a room, long after Trump said he “never heard of” Duke.
“Very fine people” marched with Nazis.
Got it?
Duke thanked Trump for that statement.
Got it?
What would MLK say about THAT? We know what you would say. You would accuse him of “seeing racism everywhere”, wouldn’t you?
Hypocrisy, empty pontification, and the arrogance of taking the sole power to define words fail the fact test every time.
"How about sharing a centered position that says, yes some may see racism where it isn’t, but some also refuse to see it when it is obvious. Don’t you think there’s another side to the coin?” ... Can't stop laughing...
The fact you mock a perfectly reasonable statement says a lot. You are so bent on attacking me you can’t even see where I agree that some see racism where it isn’t. Then you proceed to accuse me, WITHOUT evidence again, of doing just that.
I told you where I see racism and you defended the racist as “doing good”. That says a lot. What would MLK say about that?
And now you are the expert on not only defining “true racism” you also know the number of racists are “probably less than a hundred thousand”.
I will politely and gentlemanly refrain from noting where you pulled that from.
"I guess I wouldn't be a tad paranoid if all of the militant leftists weren't out to get me. ~~ T. Paine
and...
"Of course the fact that you admitted in a conversation with your little Buddy, that you purposefully posted just to irritate others wouldn't have anything to do with it." ~~ Majormajor (aka "Just the Facts!" and "Chuck")
It appears paranoia runs very deep within the alt-right crowd! LOL
I see the child-president just discovered a new toy -- the pardon.
What a dip....
(Let's hope Kelly doesn't leave the launch codes laying around.)
"Do you think it could be that the question about what Dr. MLK would say today about the Nation of Islam and how Black leaders today do not condemn it's racism but in fact take a photo with it's leader that causes the "drift"? - MM
Maybe it's just too painful of an answer to give, so it's ignored or deflected from?"
I have no idea, MM. As with all deceased historical figures, it is difficult to get into their head and account for changing times and changing situations to figure out how they would react to something contemporary.
"Majormajor, I think Reverend King would be disgusted with the racism and anti-Semitism of Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam." - TP
This is probably a fair statement.
" It is amazing to think that President Obama would have a picture taken with the vile Farrakhan and yet the left screams because David Duke endorses Trump." -TP
What exactly is amazing about this? We're only just now (Couple of months ago) seeing said picture for the first time. I'm fairly certain if said picture materialized during the '08 campaign, there would have been comparable reactions. Also; I hope more than just the left screamed about David Duke and Donald Trump.
"If it weren't for double standards, many leftists would have no standards at all" - TP
Nice turn of phrase. But, What double standard? The one you just conjured up with your theoretical "leftist"? There is no double standard because there's no way to know how anyone would have reacted to the Obama/Farrakhan photo during the election since it wasn't known about until recently. The double standard scenario resides solely in your mind. I prefer to think people on both sides of the spectrum would have reacted with appropriate vitriol back in 2007 had we known. Besides, you really don't want to dive into the double standards debate. We can talk about the partisan reaction to extramarital affairs and how they differ as a double standard.
"We must develop and maintain the capacity to forgive. He who is devoid of the power to forgive is devoid of the power to love. There is some good in the worst of us and some evil in the best of us. When we discover this, we are less prone to hate our enemies." - MLK
This comment section would do well to think on this.
"So says the incoherent ramblings of a man lecturing us that 'Leftists' are 'anti-capitalist'." ~ Dubya
Hmmm... where did I write that, Dave? It is true that some leftists are indeed anti-capitalists but that is not what I said here. I was agreeing with J.G. that leftists are typically anti-constitutionalists.
"You insist that only white conservatives like yourself can define racism and accuse ME of shutting down discussion of racism? That’s cute." ~ Dubya
I never insisted any such thing. It is true that leftists have seemingly redefined racism to encompass everything from disagreeing with progressive ideals to not vehemently and vociferously condemning Trump in every facet of his existence. (see my latest post for more on this). And yes, there have been many a time when you too have been guilty of this, Mr. Dubya.
"This is what happens when facts are answered by opinions." ~ Dubya
Well, then please stop doing that! :)
"No mainstream media company defended and praised a president like FOX and Sinclair do for Trump." ~ Dubya
Really? While many on Fox News do indeed shill for Trump, I have yet to hear any of them have a thrill go up their legs like the MS-NBC goons did with Obama.
"You have no choice, but to defend the defenders of a treacherous liar and racist. You and your sidekick do it all the time. What else can we expect from authoritarian personalities? And before you whine about that, back the F off on defining me and liberals in your warped hypocritical ideology. IF you think you can define me, I damn well can define you. Yeah, IOKIYAR. We get it." ~ Dubya
I don't defend nor need to defend those that support Trump. I criticize him and condemn him when warranted and give him kudos when he does something right, just like I have for all past presidents. As for others, they are free to think and support whom they wish. All of that said, you seem to be a little grumpy. By the way, you forgot to add "racist" to the charge of "authoritarian personality" directed towards me, sir.
"All this indicates is your bias and low information viewpoint." ~ Dubya
Maybe we should suppress my free speech then so I don't "infect" others with it, right?
"Hypocrisy, empty pontification, and the arrogance of taking the sole power to define words fail the fact test every time." ~ Dubya
Again, then STOP doing those things, like you did in your fact-free NRA post. :)
If someone supports violent anti-free speech groups like antifa and some members of BLM, then I would classify them as leftists. If someone seeks to undermine police officers and the military that serve and protect us, then I would classify them as leftists. If someone works to undermine first, second, fourth, ninth and tenth amendment rights, particularly by unconstitutional means, then they are leftists. And yes, I agree, leftists are anti-constitutional.
And so is the corporate media, as defined and dictated by Mssrs. Trump, Hannity, Limbaugh, and Trump.
And here I thought Commies were the “leftists” against capitalism and the Constitution. Turns out it’s whoever disagrees with Trump and Mr. Paine. The press is the “enemy of the people”.
This is Mr. Paine’s anti-first Amendment denouncing of our Free Press as evil leftists out to destroy the Constitution. This incredible bias is just fine with the far Right propagandists in Trump’s pocket. Somehow only the Trumpists at FOX(R) are “constitutional” in shielding their dictatorial leader from the rule of law?
Amazing, isn’t it?
I learn so much from the highly educated legal, media, and Constitutional scholar Mr. Paine. Proving once again, ONLY white conservatives can define liberals, leftists, a Free Press, and even racism. Apparently there are very few racists and they are not in positions of influence and all belong to the Klan or Nazis...or Republican Party. Oops. Trump isn’t a “true racist”, I bet.
Forgive my ignorance. If I see it in Trump, I must “see racism everywhere” after all, for Mr. Paine is always Right.
I have to learn white conservatives are all smarter and better than me. I suppose Mr. Paine considers me as a leftist “enemy of the people” and “anti-Constitutional” too. Somehow I stand with a free press rather than Mr. Paine’s far Right political ideology. My bad.
They are like today’s version of the “UBERMENSCH” of last century.
Gosh, I feel so small and inadequate now. Forgive me for attempting to think for myself. It is the most politically incorrect thing possible on the far Right.
Again, I, along with our free press, loyal opposition to Dear Leader, liberals and leftists everywhere, have been duly defined and put in our place by our moral, ethical, intellectual, and coincidently whiter, superiors.
I submit to the Aryan Ubermensch. It is the natural order of humanity that we lesser beings must learn.
"That is interesting. I certainly had no intention of indicating [that fine upstanding citizens who despise fascism and racism could still support, for example, Adolf Hitler and remain honorable and respectable]." ~~ T. Paine
It sure sounds that way to me, Mr. Paine. If I'm mistaken, this is your opportunity to redeem yourself.
"I will make a wild leap and assume that the implication is that Donald J. Trump is the equivalent of Adolph Hitler in your estimation." ~~ T. Paine
Equivalent? It's too early to be totally certain, wouldn't you say? But there are some defining characteristics that both men retain that make a comparison not out of the question. Both were/are demagogues -- political leaders who sought/seek support by appealing to popular desires and prejudices rather than by using rational argument; both rejected/reject the rule of law; both promoted/promote violence at campaign rallies and forums; and both used/use bullying tactics and threats to intimidate adversaries and allies, alike.
"The Anne Frank Centre for Mutual Respect warned of 'alarming parallels' between the President and the Nazi leader, likening the present-day US to the 'escalating steps of oppression' that led to Holocaust in the 1930s and 1940s."
The similarities are very much there. Of course, whether we go down that dark path as the German people did in the 1930s depends upon many factors -- including the collective consciousness, will and righteousness of the American people. Time and circumstances will tell.
"I hardly think [Trump] is on the verge of rounding up people of color and sending them to concentration camps. If he even were to suggest such a thing, I would be writing my congresswoman demanding that she draft articles of impeachment." ~~ T. Paine
Possibly not "on the verge", Mr. Paine, but all the characteristics making it an eventual and strong possibility are starkly apparent.
When/if he does make the overture, I can tell you with absolute certainty that it'll be much too late to write your congressperson. It'll be too late to write anybody, actually. By that time a functioning democracy will cease to exist, we'll be living in a militarized police-state, society will have effectively shutdown, and concentration camps and gulags or whatever you choose to call them will already be functioning without your knowledge or awareness. The whispering of stories will circulate that they exist, but it will not be broadcast on either MSNBC or Fox News.
Sadly, you seem to take your democratic institutions and heritage for granted and don't appreciate the fragility and vulnerability of the structure -- especially in this time of crisis. You do so at your own peril, Mr. Paine, no matter how Lilly-white your home state of Utah remains.
"[Trump] is hardly the fascist second-coming of Hitler that the left makes him out to be." -- T. Paine
Will Rogers said it best when he remarked, and I paraphrase, "that history doesn't repeat itself -- but it sure does rhyme". Yes, the times are different and things seem much more modern, but the underlying characteristics of the two men are unmistakably similar.
"Further, it diminishes the true evil of Hitler by characterizing one's political adversaries with such disgusting epithets. That hyperbolic demonization, ridicule, and marginalization is what I mean when I say 'leftist tactics'." ~~ T. Paine
If only the German people of the 1930s could have had the same fortuitous hindsight. Possibly they did, and chose to ignore it also. I'm guessing comparisons were being made by those who saw things early, too, but they were labeled as demonizing and critical of the great things their fuhrer was doing for the German people.
Anyway, let this be food for thought.
TB3 thanks for your response.
Mr. Paine
Do you notice how jG really doesn't show his true colors until his little Buddy starts to post? Then they are a tag team, and it doesn't matter whose bog they are on, it's the same.
Also I see you have noticed how Little Buddy likes to puts words in your mouth, and then starts a speaking like something from the CPUSA website. He really can't help himself, racism is all he's got but as someone who admits he's never been effected by racism you have to wonder.
Mr. Paine, you really should have rules about allowing your yapping little lap-dog to be unmuzzled and out of his carrier.
Maybe if you had him spayed he'd settle down and wouldn't be such a nuisance.
"I'm fairly certain if said picture materialized during the '08 campaign, there would have been comparable reactions. Also; I hope more than just the left screamed about David Duke and Donald Trump." ~ TB3
TB3, I would like to think that such a picture in '07 would have caused an uprising among ALL Americans; however, the fact that only conservatives were troubled by Obama's connections and actually starting his political career in the living room of the domestic terrorist Bill Ayers makes me wonder.
"...you really don't want to dive into the double standards debate. We can talk about the partisan reaction to extramarital affairs and how they differ as a double standard." ~ TB3
Well, I would concur with your assessment here, sir. Trump has no decency on this issue either and I am disgusted and I condemn him for it. It was one more of the major reasons why I failed to vote for him. That said, I haven't heard credible charges of unwanted groping, asking someone to "kiss it", or even a credible charge of rape as per the would-be first husband in the last election.
"We must develop and maintain the capacity to forgive. He who is devoid of the power to forgive is devoid of the power to love. There is some good in the worst of us and some evil in the best of us. When we discover this, we are less prone to hate our enemies." - MLK
"This comment section would do well to think on this." ~ TB3
It would indeed. I love the comment. Thanks for sharing and giving us all something to ponder, sir.
"And here I thought Commies were the 'leftists' against capitalism and the Constitution. Turns out it’s whoever disagrees with Trump and Mr. Paine. The press is the 'enemy of the people'." ~ Dubya
Commies are, by definition, against capitalism. Further, most commies are also against our constitution. Not sure where Trump and I fit in there. Further, while the mainstream leftist press is far from doing its job of informing people objectively about the news, I hardly think they have fallen to be the enemy of the people. It is interesting how you have a remarkable talent for putting words in my mouth that I never said nor thought. Further, even the leftist media has a first amendment right to their blather. That is the point, Mr. Dubya. I seldom agree with the fabricated, exaggerated, or spiked stories they are responsible for, but I support their first amendment right to publish their crap. Too bad that your don't make the same allowances for Fox and other non-progressive media sources.
And then the rest of your statement here just devolved to your typical victim and demonization nonsense. I won't waste my time with it.
"That is interesting. I certainly had no intention of indicating [that fine upstanding citizens who despise fascism and racism could still support, for example, Adolf Hitler and remain honorable and respectable]." ~~ T. Paine
It sure sounds that way to me, Mr. Paine. If I'm mistaken, this is your opportunity to redeem yourself. ~ J.G.
I thought I just did by saying otherwise. :)
As for the Trump/Hitler comparison, I still think that is so far overblown as to be comical. It is little more than progressive propaganda at this point, I suspect. Yes, we should still hold him accountable as president, just as we should for every president and elected official. This is one of the reasons why I still support the Mueller investigation. I think it is probably going to result in very little regarding Trump personally, but if so, he should be dealt with in full accordance with the law. This is the difference between conservatives/liberals and leftists. Leftists claim that there were no crimes with their politicians, even when the apparent evidence already available far surpasses what started off the Trump investigation.
"When/if he does make the overture, I can tell you with absolute certainty that it'll be much too late to write your congressperson. It'll be too late to write anybody, actually."~ J.G.
In retrospect, you make a very good point here. And because of this, I agree with the need for vigilance always. It is also a reason why even good and honorable presidents still need their critics in the American populace to hold them accountable in all of their actions.
Again, I want to thank you for your thoughtful comments and demeanor, J.G. I have enjoyed this far more and have indeed gotten more "food for thought" with your comments.
Majormajor, perhaps I have missed some comment, but I haven't noticed anything untoward from J.G. thus far. He has been refreshingly interesting to me. Correct me, please, if I am wrong. As for Mr. Dubya, unfortunately he is very good at projecting upon others the very things he does and also putting words in our mouths that we never said nor thought. That is indeed tiresome.
"Majormajor, perhaps I have missed some comment, but I haven't noticed anything untoward from J.G. thus far." ~~ T. Paine
Mr. Paine, has Chuck emailed or texted you and begged that you do something to protect him from me? ... like when he cried and begged Tom Degan to publish his comments? ;-)
"I thought I just did by saying otherwise." ~~ T. Paine
No, Mr. Paine you really didn't. You did a great job of evading the whole scenario, though. You must dance for a living, correct?
"Mr. Paine, has Chuck emailed or texted you and begged that you do something to protect him from me?" ~ J.G.
J.G., you know what Majormajor thinks and says exactly as much as I do. He has never hidden anything from you with me. He tells you precisely what he is thinking for you and all of the world to see. I certainly don't see any "fear" in him as he is often times the ONLY conservative in the middle of the group arguing against you all. :)
"I thought I just did by saying otherwise." ~~T. Paine
"No, Mr. Paine you really didn't. You did a great job of evading the whole scenario, though. You must dance for a living, correct?" ~ J.G.
Well then let me state explicitly so for you and posterity that I did say otherwise. (And while I move like a ninja, I am not much of a dancer.) :)
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