The latest expression of this leftism-run-amok is their penchant for wanting to dissuade, if not outright suppress, free speech. We have seen this occur on college campuses, as the overwhelming majority of professors are leftists set on indoctrinating our bright but ignorant children. We have seen this occur in the progressive ideology perpetrated in our left-leaning media. We have seen this occur in the censoring of conservative content on Facebook and YouTube. We have even seen attempts of shutting down debate in congress from leftists, particularly when it came time to discuss DACA. Sadly, the problem is growing at a seemingly exponential rate.
Many of these leftists engage in what can aptly be characterized as “Stalinist” tactics as they seem to want nothing more than to issue a gag order on free speech. This is particularly visible on most college campuses where “safe spaces” are established to provide leftist students a respite from the “racist, sexist, homophobic” conservatives. These leftists talk about “white privilege” and “micro-aggressions” as a means to stifle debate and intimidate those whom disagree with their leftist agenda. It is ironic in the extreme that for all of the left’s talk about inclusivity, they certainly don’t want diverse opinions to enter the public discussion. Only leftist thought is celebrated and championed. It is the only time where any form of homogeneity is required; homogeneity of thought.
Recently the “Student Power Network” at Penn State University has made demands to the university president that he denounce and defund right-wing “hate groups” that engage in anti-immigrant rhetoric. Evidently anyone that speaks up for the rule of law in enforcing our borders is now a member of a “hate group” according to them. Dissenting speech won’t be tolerated by most students there accordingly.
There are many other numerous cases of conservative students having their first amendment free speech rights threatened on college campuses. Last December a couple of young men wearing “make America great again” ball caps were accosted in a Fordham University coffee house that doubles as a “safe space” by a social justice warrior. The young men were not even discussing politics but rather their preparations for finals when they were yelled at and asked to leave. “Get out! Five minutes,” the worker barked. “I’m protecting our customers … you are wearing hats that completely violate safe space policy. You have to go. ” She exploded when Michael Esposito, 19, asked her to explain. “Fascism, Nazis!” shouted the militant leftist. “You have three minutes.” Evidently this is just one more example of leftists protecting their campus from any dissenting opinion.
This has long been the case too at many universities throughout the nation when conservative leaders are invited to speak on campus, especially at commencement ceremonies. The Leftist students and faculty are not content to simply not attend the speech and ignore it if these so choose, but they must make sure nobody else can safely attend either. This was ironically illustrated at Berkeley last year, the supposed birth place of campus free speech, when antifa thugs came out in force in violent response to conservative Milo Yiannopoulos coming to speak. To these leftist thugs, merely taking issues with a progressive position is considered hate speech.
Sadly, this chilling effect on free speech is not simply limited to college campuses. I have written this blog under a pseudonym and cancelled my Facebook account years ago when it became possible that I might be laid off and have to seek a new job. This wasn’t because I supported the KKK or championed misogynistic views towards women. It was simply because I am a pro-life, pro-traditional-marriage, constitutional conservative. It is because I espouse orthodox conservative views that many PC members of most large corporate human relations departments would nowadays possibly consider as “hate speech”, thereby making me an ineligible candidate for hiring despite my exemplary skills.
This has come to a head where YouTube and Facebook routinely censor conservative content while very seldom doing so for leftist content. Indeed Senator Scott took issue recently when Facebook blocked two conservative ladies who go by the names of Diamond and Silk who are supporters of Donald Trump because they presented information that was “unsafe to the community.” Senator Scott asked,
“What is it about two black women espousing their support of the president of the United States that makes them ‘unsafe’ for the community? They aren’t bullies. They aren’t violent. They aren’t inciting riots. I don’t always agree with their methodology or even some of their statements, but I don’t have to agree with them. That’s the beauty of the First Amendment, isn’t it? Tell me, if they were two African-American liberals espousing their views about a liberal political figure, would they too be considered ‘unsafe’? I don’t think they would.”
It has gotten so scary that California lawmakers are now considering a bill over concerns over “fake news” that would tighten control over free speech on a whole host of online activities. The fact that the government is looking to control what is “free speech” should frighten the hell out of all of us, even if this first step is only from the moon-bat state of California.
“Beating people up, organizing boycotts for perceived unforgivable offenses, or preventing speakers from being heard on a college campus, it’s all coming from the same place: a desperate desire to stop debate by branding your opponent unacceptable and driving him or her from the public square,” stated Laura Ingraham after having confronted gun-control activist David Hogg and thereby suffering a loss of a few cowardly advertisers due to Hogg requesting a boycott of her show. Ingraham continued, “Their objective is a total transformation of American society, not through rational discourse and open debate, but through personal demonization and silencing.”
Constitutionally-minded liberals and conservatives need to stand together in defending free speech in all places and in all guises. The political pendulum can and will swing back to the other side, and we do not want either side circumventing or ignoring our first amendment rights for free speech. Today, it is conservatives who are having their free speech shut down. It could just as easily be liberals tomorrow. We need to work together to ensure neither happens.
There is a reason our Founding Fathers specifically mentioned free speech in the very first amendment to the Bill of Rights. It was to protect speech, especially political speech, that some might find uncomfortable, controversial, or even disgusting. If all speech was agreeable and non-controversial, there would not ever be a need to protect it. Now is the time for conservatives and liberals to work together to ensure this right is never subverted, for to allow it to become so would be the next major step in bringing down the liberties of our constitutional republic.
244 comments:
1 – 200 of 244 Newer› Newest»At least the Right pays real money to shut up people. However, that kind of take the “free” out of speech.
You keep on this topic and I keep resisting the urge to cut and paste the text of the first amendment.
I would imagine my defining of these terms will further anger some folks, but words have meanings and I want to make sure that readers understand how I define these terms as used in my post so that there won’t be any confusion.
"Words have meanings" alright. But they will be dictated by Mr. Paine.
And here we go. Only Mr. Paine and his far Right ideology may define words. (It doesn't anger me. I've been pointing this out for years.)
Without mutual agreement on definitions, rational discussion is impossible. He has claimed supreme authority over words and their meanings. (Sounds extremely authoritarian to me.)
Mr. Paine has thus done his part to destroy rational discussion and communication. He's the boss.
But he will blame me, of course, for he alone has the supreme authority to define me, and all others who dare question his authority and think for themselves.
I now submit to his supreme authority, for I have learned my place.
Thank you for reading the words of an "anti-constitutional leftist". Now the words must be trampled, stripped of meaning, and dismissed as politically incorrect.
After all, "free speech" itself, like racism, is whatever authoritarian conservatives say it is.
See? I'm learning.
How about some more facts?
"My president never says anything that's stupid. That’s what’s wrong with you left people who always want to be politically correct...He’s honest and we love him for his honesty...He don’t do anything wrong. YOU gets it wrong”. Diamond and Silk to the BBC.
There’s no fixing stupid, or hate.
Diamond and Silk took their schtick a step further when they sat down for an interview with white nationalist, Holocaust denier and fellow Trump supporter John Friend. The show was broadcast on American Free Press, a website that calls itself “independent, populist, and pro-White“ and promotes racist and anti-Semitic views and conspiracy theories.
Sounds like purveyors of hate speech to me. They are not censored by any government agency, just by common decency.
The same applies to these MAGAts looking to agitate.
Our Mission: Rodrigue’s Coffeehouse, located in and operated out of the Alumni House, serves as a free space on campus for all students and clubs. It serves as a hub for social awareness and a venue to promote and foster Fordham’s artistic community. Another primary purpose of the club is to provide students with Fair Trade and Organic coffee in keeping with our social conscience.
Knowing this, the MAGAts went in wearing their MAGA hats to deliberately provoke a confrontation. If they just wanted coffee they could have taken their hats off. They did not. Like all MAGAts they didn’t have the common decency. To hell with those hateful assholes.
Con-servatives control the entire federal government and most states. They have far greater proportionate representation in Congress and media empires.
So who bitches and whines the loudest? AND they call US the snowflakes? LOL!
"At least the Right pays real money to shut up people. However, that kind of take the 'free' out of speech." ~ Jerry Critter
Lol! Jerry I can always count on you for a great laugh! Thanks!
"Without mutual agreement on definitions, rational discussion is impossible. He has claimed supreme authority over words and their meanings." ~ Dubya
Hmmm... that was why I was explaining what the words mean to most orthodox conservatives and how I was thus defining them in my post. I guess if leftists want to define the terms otherwise then that could indeed cause confusion if they fail to understand how I was using the terms.
"(Sounds extremely authoritarian to me.)" ~ Dubya (You forgot "...and racist".) ~ T. Paine :)
"Mr. Paine has thus done his part to destroy rational discussion and communication. He's the boss." ~ Dubya
I am sorry you feel that way -- truly. I have really tried to foster discussion and communication. J.G. seems to be doing well with it. And yes, on this blog, I am indeed the boss, just as you are on your blog, sir.
"But he will blame me, of course, for he alone has the supreme authority to define me, and all others who dare question his authority and think for themselves." ~ Dubya
There is a case of projection if I ever saw one. I can no more define you for yourself than you can define me for myself. That said, I can only characterize you, or define if you prefer, for my own understanding of you based on your past actions and comments. I have tried to be as objective as possible in doing so. I dare say I have done a better job than you in your reciprocation. (But then I am an authoritarian racist by your estimation, sir.)
"My president never says anything that's stupid. That’s what’s wrong with you left people who always want to be politically correct...He’s honest and we love him for his honesty...He don’t do anything wrong. YOU gets it wrong”. Diamond and Silk to the BBC.
"There’s no fixing stupid, or hate." ~ Dubya
Whether you think their speech is stupid or hateful is irrelevant. It is protected first amendment free speech unless they are inciting violence. Do you not get this? Simply because you don't like them, or Trump, or Limbaugh, or Fox News, or me does not mean you have the right to silence any of us. THAT is the purpose of the first amendment. It is to protect speech that some may not like.
"Knowing this, [safe space rules] the MAGAts went in wearing their MAGA hats to deliberately provoke a confrontation. If they just wanted coffee they could have taken their hats off. They did not. Like all MAGAts they didn’t have the common decency. To hell with those hateful assholes." ~ Dubya
I see. But if you were wearing a Bernie Sanders T-shirt, I am sure you would be polite and decent enough to remove it or put a jacket on over it before going into a conservative coffee house, right? After all you wouldn't want to provoke a confrontation. Give me a break. They were preparing for finals and probably just wanted to run in and get a cup of coffee before returning to studying, I suspect. Are you really that delicate in your sensibilities, sir?
I'm starting to recall why Rain banned Little Buddy from her blog.
Mr.Paine, set jG right, tell him if I emailed or in any way contacted you for begging anything
Reality time.
Your stupid women are not silenced. We can hear their whining all over the place. They have their First Amendment Rights. They are all over FOX and far Right media for God’s sake. You are acting over dramatic and hysterical, and not in the funny sense.
No, they are not silenced. And neither are you silenced. You have your First Amendment Rights. Whining and playing your victim card doesn't make your persecution complex more reality based.
I’ve been accused, along with the free press, of being an “anti-Constitutional leftist” by your ridiculous attempt to define me and the mainstream media. I didn’t put those words in your mouth, did I?. No. Those are the words you defined and applied to me.
I mistook anti-constitution for anti-capitalism and that is the extent of my “putting words in your mouth”. I addressed the nonsense of your false and accusatory definition, and you whined about it instead of directly addressing the point.
Now where did I call you a racist? As I see it, I’m the one blamed and accused here. You whine about me accusing you of racism ALL THE TIME, when I have not. That’s why you falsely claimed that I “see racism everywhere”, as you fail to show evidence of your accusation. This is your specialty. The victim card. Conservatives suffering soo much oppression. Black people have no idea of how terrible you have it. Except your stupid "silenced" Trump cultists.
I love how you shill for your poor "silenced" coffee shop MAGAts. They are whining all over FOX (R) too. Poor babies.
I see. But if you were wearing a Bernie Sanders T-shirt, I am sure you would be polite and decent enough to remove it or put a jacket on over it before going into a conservative coffee house, right?
YES! I'm not an asshole like your poor little victimized MAGAts. Yes, ever the victims. And you still want to make it about me! You answer my point with innuendo and deflection.
After all you wouldn't want to provoke a confrontation. Give me a break.
And there you go again. Thanks for the personal sliming, You really want to define ME as a greater asshole than your preciously pure MAGAts.
And of course, like your fantastic powers of knowing how many racists there are in America, you “suspect” the most innocent of motives for your MAGAt’s deliberate and antagonistic behavior.
They were preparing for finals and probably just wanted to run in and get a cup of coffee before returning to studying, I suspect. Are you really that delicate in your sensibilities, sir?
And one more time you had to make it about me. Delicate sensibilities? Hardly, from one who feels like he’s being called a racist all the time.
How many times have I had to say, "You are not a racist" for it to sink in?
You are not a racist.
You are not a racist.
No hard feelings. I enjoy your exercising of your right to free speech. I just don't buy what you're selling.
I now submit to your authority, sir.
Majormajor, I posted my following comment on the previous post too:
J.G., you know what Majormajor thinks and says exactly as much as I do. He has never hidden anything from you with me. He tells you precisely what he is thinking for you and all of the world to see. I certainly don't see any "fear" in him as he is often times the ONLY conservative in the middle of the group arguing against you all. :)
"I have really tried to foster discussion and communication. J.G. seems to be doing well with it. And yes, on this blog, I am indeed the boss..." ~~ T. Paine
Please don't patronize me, Mr. Paine.
This may truly be your blog, but it's only at the pleasure of Google. And let me remind you that I obviously exert considerable influence as to whether comment moderation is exercised. (Have you ever figured out how to adjust that setting?...or did you just fall into it by accident the first time?)
Now to the reason for my surly attitude this bright and sunny Saturday morning:
"Leftists, as was reiterated by a member of that group to me lately, are inherently anti-constitutionalists." -- T. Paine
I'll give you every opportunity to retract this statement and offer an apology if, as I suspect, you were referring to me in this statement. I'm a very fair man, and acknowledge that people are prone to mistakes and errors. We're all human, after all.
On the other hand, I did make the time to point out to you on your previous post that you're off-base calling me a "leftist" since I'm obviously more interested in abiding by constitutional rule-of-law than even you. With your above statement, if it is in fact referencing me, you've purposely made the decision to deliberately lie.
I eagerly await your explanation, Mr. Paine.
Well Trump is bombing Syria even before the chemical inspection teams even started to investigate and the funny thing is Putin said in March that he had inside information on a Western false flag operation happening soon.
Shock and Awe all over again!
Reality time? I think perhaps "alternate reality time" would be a better title for many of your comments, Mr. Dubya. :)
First let me say that just because Diamond and Silk have a first amendment right to say whatever they please, it does not mean that Facebook or anyone else must give them a platform to do so. Regardless though, FB can hardly claim to be a neutral and unbiased platform for free speech if they do censor them, as they have done so. FB and YouTube are left-wing partisan platforms, pure and simple, based on their past censoring of conservative content. Again, that is their right, but in doing so they must give up the false pretense of neutrality.
Dave, you have a notorious reputation among all but the most partisan of progressives of putting words in other people's mouths with whom you disagree. You are being quite disingenuous to protest otherwise.
Not that it matters, but you have long intimated, implied, and even outright said on at least one occasion in the past that I am a racist. Typically you couch it in terms and accusations of me having "racist comments" or "supporting racists". You then will sometimes say, "but I am not calling you a racist." Frankly I no longer care what you call me, as it matters not a whit. To your mind, I support a racist president, denounce the violence conducted in the name of BLM and therefore am racist, and find most of the PC white privilege nonsense to be just that: nonsense. I guess I should just wear the title of racist given to me by you to go along with my authoritarian mindset. Right?
You really are tiresome.
Only you and progressives are really victims. Correct? We are the authoritarians oppressing you.
You shill for some safe-space progressive against the "vicious attack" in the guise of some college students wearing a Trump hat. That really speaks well for the fortitude of these pussies. Hell nearly every college campus is a safe space in its entirety anymore. Does that mean that conservatives should never be able to support a cause or candidate on campus because it might offend and upset some progressive snowflake?
Further, with your insistence on always being on the attack instead of discussing on various blogs, I find it unlikely that you would be considerate enough to hide your Bernie Sanders shirt in such a situation. Perhaps you would though. Then again, I know some people are only brave when hidden in the anonymity of the blogosphere and are not quite so courageous in their convictions when they are standing alone in real life. (Not saying this is the case for you necessarily... just so we are clear.)
"I now submit to your authority, sir." ~ Dubya
If only you would... I think you would find you would lead a much happier life. :)
James, a false-flag op if ever there was one! Of course, and don't forget, Putin has the goods on the sexual pervert occupying the White House.
The pervert will not dare take out any known Russian positions. He knows Putin has the pictures -- as Comey was referring to when he remarked how Trump was fixated and obsessed with the Russian prostitute, eh, "golden shower" scandal. ;-)
Like Fred Sanford, I'm surprised the pervert hasn't succumbed "to the big one" yet. The stress must be excruciating. LOL
Jefferson's Guardian, you're fired.
"The University of Virginia discovered a Thomas Jefferson statue smeared with the phrase “racist + rapist” on Friday.
The vandalism likely occurred Friday, on the morning of the former president and UVA founder’s birthday, reported NBC29.
UVA students, alumni, and community members previously plastered a sign reading “Black Lives Matter — F*** White Supremacy” to the statue and covered it with a black shroud in September."
Rob Shimshock
I'm still waiting for your explanation, Mr. Paine. Since I'll be away until tonight, and will have limited connectivity, you'll have the rest of the day to think about it.
I never called you a racist for supporting Trump. I have suggested one should consider how supporting a racist like him looks to others. In fact you called him “foolish” but a “stable” president.
This isn’t racism. It’s cognitive dissonance. “I support a foolish racist president, but don’t criticize my thinking or beliefs”. Hooo kaayy.
You called BLM a “racist hate group” long before backing off and citing conduct “in the name of BLM”. You know, unarmed Blacks have been beaten, strangled and shot in the back, “In the name of the law”. We don’t hear you blaming the law, for some reason. I’ve joined you in condemning criminal behavior, but condemned you for smearing the founders, whom YOU called racists while smearing Obama for having them as guests. Who tends to call Blacks racists more than others anyway? Who blames Blacks for aggravating racial tensions more than they blame whites? Who blames Obama more than the Birther President for inflaming racial tension? Some would certainly have a case to think that person is a racist.
Not accusing you of racism, just offering a perspective to consider, if you fit that pattern. Examine your words and see where I come from. But you take this as a personal accusation, no matter how I frame it.
To your mind, I support a racist president, denounce the violence conducted in the name of BLM and therefore am racist,
Thank you again for defining me and putting your words into my mouth, or mind.
I take it you want me to think “I’m with her” hats were welcome at Trump rallies and redneck bars? Amazing. IOKIYAR is the rule.
I find it unlikely that you would be considerate enough to hide your Bernie Sanders shirt in such a situation.
I’m not about wearing partisan political garb, I’m more about calling out irrationality, and authoritarian behavior that demonizes and arrogantly defines me as unconstitutional. You can’t seem to stop.
I take a knee to your authoritarianism.
"Please don't patronize me, Mr. Paine." ~ J.G.
I was not trying to do so. I honestly appreciate your recent demeanor and that was why I said so. (BTW, yes, I do know how to adjust comment moderation... smart ass. :) )
"Leftists, as was reiterated by a member of that group to me lately, are inherently anti-constitutionalists." -- T. Paine
"I'll give you every opportunity to retract this statement and offer an apology if, as I suspect, you were referring to me in this statement. I'm a very fair man, and acknowledge that people are prone to mistakes and errors. We're all human, after all." ~ J.G.
Actually this comment was prompted by a "leftist" family member whom I had a discussion with on this very topic, in part based on your and my recent conversation on the subject. It wasn't referring to you though, so you needn't fret. (Geez, and you think I am paranoid! lol!)
"On the other hand, I did make the time to point out to you on your previous post that you're off-base calling me a 'leftist' since I'm obviously more interested in abiding by constitutional rule-of-law than even you." ~ J.G.
Yes, I recall. I responded afterwards to your comical statement pointing out why I considered your assessment to be in error as far as your being more constitutionally-pure than myself. I don't think I need to repeat it again here.
Woodenman, I tend to think you are incorrect in your conspiracy theory regarding Trump's actions with Syria, but I will refrain from fully discounting it until there is more evidence to support or deny your suspicions.
"I never called you a racist for supporting Trump. I have suggested one should consider how supporting a racist like him looks to others. In fact you called him “foolish” but a 'stable' president." ~ Dubya
I am not going to waste much more time on your silliness, Mr. Dubya. This time is about it for awhile. That said, let me say AGAIN that I am not a Trump supporter for the millionth time. I did not vote for him. I don't intend to vote for him next time. I don't own a MAGA hat. I certainly did not contribute time or money to his campaign. I regularly criticize him for a myriad of issues. I find him to be nearly as morally bankrupt as the Clintons are. Despite all of that, I have praised some of the decisions he has made in regards to cutting some regulations, reforming the tax code, and trying to secure our borders. I suppose that makes me an ardent supporter to many leftists though. I realize that one must hate all of Trump and his actions or one is guilty of supporting a racist authoritarian.
" 'I support a foolish racist president, but don’t criticize my thinking or beliefs'. Hooo kaayy." ~ Dubya
See what I mean? By your estimation, I support a foolish racist president, thereby implying that I must also be foolish and racist, right? I refer you to my previous paragraph where I said I do NOT support the president, but do find some of his policies as warranted and good for our nation. Further, I did call Trump "foolish". I have also called him thin-skinned (not unlike a few leftists I know) and he is very unstatesman-like. I called him stable because I see no evidence to suggest that he is mentally unbalanced. He is simply emotionally immature. His cognitive skills appear to be intact to me.
"You called BLM a 'racist hate group' long before backing off and citing conduct 'in the name of BLM'." ~ Dubya
You are right. I did so to clarify my statement for you specifically that the BLM cause is a noble one for those real cases of police brutality. I did so to point out that some thugs have high-jacked the movement with violence and a leftist agenda, including a few of the leaders of the movement. You have failed to acknowledge the distinction and clarification and continue to carry on with your charges.
"Some would certainly have a case to think that person is a racist." ~ Dubya
Yes, but you wouldn't call that person a racist for your mis-perceived bull crap, would you?
"Not accusing you of racism, just offering a perspective to consider, if you fit that pattern. Examine your words and see where I come from. But you take this as a personal accusation, no matter how I frame it." ~ Dubya
Yep, your not accusing me, but in your twisted examination of the evidence, if it barks like a dog and wags its tail like a dog, it must absolutely be a duck. :)
Is English your native tongue, Mr. Dubya, because sometimes I wonder if your reading comprehension is a product of this? You see what you want to see in my writing; not what I am actually saying. Anti-capitalist instead of anti-constitutionalist is just the latest example.
"I take it you want me to think 'I’m with her' hats were welcome at Trump rallies and redneck bars? Amazing. IOKIYAR is the rule." ~ Dubya
Bars are private businesses. I suppose they can enforce any dress code they wish. I imagine Trump rallies and Hillary rallies were equally welcoming to members of the opposite team. A university is by its very nature a public institution of higher education where the free exchange of differing and varying ideals used to be able to take place. Now we MUST have uniformity of thought throughout the entire campus, or snowflakes throw hissie fits. Who is the authoritarian here when speech and a certain thought mindset is mandated?
"I take a knee to your authoritarianism." ~ Dubya
You keep saying this, but you don't do it. If so, you would argue the facts, thoughts, and opinions as they are presented to you, and not as you THINK they are. :)
Mr. Paine,
Allow me to amend my statement for clarity.
You have determined a thin-skinned, un-statesman-like, emotionally immature, and foolish man is a “stable president”. Agreed?
Let me attempt to use language you can understand on your BLM criticism. Can you admit thug cops have “hijacked law and order” like thugs ‘hijacked BLM”? If so, then stop with the double standards. How about we blame the guilty individuals, and leave “hijacking of BLM” and “hijacking law and order” out of the equation in these two issues?
You refuse to consider the possibility that MAGAts intentionally provoked and agitated the coffee house staff and customers. It makes no difference who owns it, we’re talking about the people present. That’s what you dismiss and ignore. Instead you turned it onto me. Thank you.
You don’t support Trump?
You enthusiastically give money to the NRA, who you know contributed millions to elect Trump. This means at the very least you have financially supported Trump’s election indirectly.
I understand you have differences with Trump, but you have far more in common with his actions as president. For example. you enthusiastically support Trump’s debt-raising tax cuts for the rich and corporations. To that degree you support him. You love his dismantling of Obamacare and have no issue with his removing regulations on Wall Street. To that degree you support him. You embraced Trump’s declaration that “very fine people” marched with Nazis. To that degree you support him. (And I won’t call you a racist for that.) You agree with Trump that Black athletes are SOBs for taking a knee. (And I won’t call you a racist for that.)
If he did something sane, compassionate or responsible, I would support those actions too. But I won’t hold my breath.
Anti-capitalist instead of anti-constitutionalist is just the latest example.
I clarified this, and you ignored my clarification and reasonable points, and proceeded to make it about me again.
Now you accuse me of “twisted examination of evidence” yet offer no supporting evidence for your accusation.
This is the authoritarianism I’m talking about. This absolute right to decree definitions of words and others. When you insult me, I at least have the courtesy to show you the offending words.
I support the Constitution, and you insult and demonize me by spewing such an unfounded, ignorant, and hateful notion that I do not. YOU defined me that way, and offer NO EVIDENCE to support your accusations. Then you accused me of “twisted examination of the evidence”. Wow. That is some projection.
This is the another example of the authoritarianism I’m talking about.
Now we see you’re getting angry and unable to focus on words that have mutually accepted definitions. Here’s the problem. I speak English. You speak con-servatism.
Let’s agree we have a communication barrier. And it will always be there as long your ideology takes authority to unilaterally define words.
This makes rational discussion impossible, like I indicated in my first comment.
This exchange proved my point.
Thank you for allowing my comments.
Mr. Paine,
Little Buddy puts words into the mouths of those he disagrees with and then demands they defend themselves from what he says they said. Nice gig if you can get away with it. Sadly for him, both you and I are on to Dave's tactic.
So. Keeping theme with the original blog post. Continuity of theme!
"Actually this comment was prompted by a 'leftist' family member whom I had a discussion with on this very topic, in part based on your and my recent conversation on the subject. It wasn't referring to you though, so you needn't fret. (Geez, and you think I am paranoid! lol!)" ~~ T. Paine
I noticed you surrounded the word "leftist" with quotations marks. So, Mr. Paine, is the alleged "family member" actually a leftist (by your definition) or not?
It's a good thing you weren't referring to me, of course, because that would make you a liar.
"I responded afterwards to your comical statement pointing out why I considered your assessment to be in error as far as your being more constitutionally-pure than myself. ~~ T. Paine
Oh, I see, your assessment is that you're more "constitutionally-pure" (whatever that means?) because of...why? Is it because, possibly, you're the authority?...and your authority shouldn't be questioned?
"I don't think I need to repeat it again here." ~~ T. Paine
No, I disagree, you should repeat it. It bears repeating because we're finally getting to the heart of the matter. You know it, and you're trying to weasel out of it. Or, "dance", as I've already alluded. (Are you sure you're not a dancer?)
"Simply because you don't like them, or Trump, or Limbaugh, or Fox News, or me does not mean you have the right to silence any of us. THAT is the purpose of the first amendment. It is to protect speech that some may not like." ~~ T. Paine
Although the first amendment protects hate-speech, anti-hate speech is also protected and can be used as a tool to counter it.
"A university is by its very nature a public institution of higher education where the free exchange of differing and varying ideals used to be able to take place. Now we MUST have uniformity of thought throughout the entire campus..." ~~ T. Paine
You obviously haven't spent much time on college campuses in recent years, Mr. Paine. It's exactly opposite of how you just portrayed it. Not only is the free exchange of "differing and varying ideals" encouraged and taking place, but the respect for diversity and variance of opinion and lifestyle is paramount.
However, racism, bigotry and hate are not included as "legitimate differing or varying ideals" -- as much as you think they should be. I'm fairly confident Jesus was of the same opinion.
"Mr.Paine, set jG right, tell him if I emailed or in any way contacted you for begging anything" ~~ Majormajor (aka, "Chuck")
Chuck, you're begging -- again?! LOLOL
...your assessment is that you're more "constitutionally-pure" (whatever that means?) because of...why?Is it because, possibly, you're the authority?...and your authority shouldn't be questioned?
Now you’re getting it ,JG.
Mr. Paine is the authority on the Constitution AND our relationship to it, because Mr. Paine is also the authority on “liberals and leftists”. He is also an authority on “true racism” and informs us that there are hardly any racists out there beside liberals, leftists, blacks, and to a far lesser degree the KKK, Nazis and white supremacists. The latter group numbers being only in six figures at most.
The lesson here is we use mutually agreed upon defined terms as we speak English, while Mr. Paine and Co. have the authority to define words and uswords and speak, shall we call it, “Conservative Murican”.
One example is Mr. Paine sees rampant “Stalinism” in academia and media. Guess who gets to re-define “Stalinism”?
I suggest we obey, and never question, his supreme authority. I think this may be the new conservative definition of “Good liberals” or “Good Leftists”, whichever label they care to define for us at the given time.
“Ignorance is strength. Freedom is slavery. War is peace.”
And that’s the origin of modern politicized definitions of terms.
This re-defining of words in "1984" was based on Orwell’s critique of Stalinism, by the way. But that’s “Old Stalinism”, now, I suppose.
Now Mr. Paine has a brand new far Right definition, because he wants to use the same tactic to make liberals/leftists out to be Stalinists. They have ALWAYS believed we are commies.
The radical Right assumes their own Stalinist authority to make up definitions, define, demonize, blame and accuse liberals/leftists, minorities, democracy advocates, news media, educators, and scientists.
And that is what they choose to do with their free speech. Not that they are racists.
They’re more like....Stalinists.
Their projection is a wonder of the world.
"The radical Right assumes their own Stalinist authority to make up definitions, define, demonize, blame and accuse liberals/leftists, minorities, democracy advocates, news media, educators, and scientists."
Drivel.
Majormajor assumes authority to define drivel, to prove me correct, no doubt. ;-)
jG'S Little Buddy assumes authority to define everyone who is not a radical leftist as he is, along with Dave's specialty of putting words into the mouths of those he disagrees with and then demanding they defend themselves from what he says they said, is the same old same old drivel from Dubya.
For your consideration: The case of I'm not vs No, You Are.
TB3,
Is that the evolution of:
“I know you are, but what am I?
Indeed it is. Which, itself, is a variation on the classic I'm Rubber, You're Glue retort.
Jerry and TB3,
Don't forget, "HE started it!" vs "No, YOU started it!"
Or as John and Paul opined:
"You say yes, I say no
You say stop and I say go go go, oh no..."
"You keep saying [you kneel to my authoritarian nature], but you don't do it. If so, you would argue the facts, thoughts, and opinions as they are presented to you, and not as you THINK they are." ~~ T. Paine
Finally...you concede!
Is this a variation of, "do as I say, not as I do"?
"You have determined a thin-skinned, un-statesman-like, emotionally immature, and foolish man is a “stable president”. Agreed?" ~ Dubya
Geez Dave, do we need to mutually agree on every definition to prevent you from arguing, sir? Trump is stable in the fact that he is in control of his mental faculties, can track with conversations and current events, and is not apparently suffering from any mental illnesses. Obama was thin-skinned, Bill Clinton was emotionally immature, LBJ and Woodrow Wilson were notorious racists and yet they were all "stable" as far as being able to carry out their presidential duties. So too, is Trump, regardless of whether you like how he executes those duties.
"Can you admit thug cops have 'hijacked law and order' like thugs ‘hijacked BLM'? If so, then stop with the double standards. How about we blame the guilty individuals, and leave 'hijacking of BLM' and 'hijacking law and order' out of the equation in these two issues?" ~ Dubya
Dave, that is a fair point, and by and large I agree with you assertion. The only caveat I would make though is that the percentage of cops that are thugs acting in such a manner is very small. Further, I have yet to hear of a single leader of any police force justify unlawful use of force by those thuggish officers. Sadly the percentage of most BLM events often devolving to unlawful behavior is quite a bit higher. Further, some few of the "leaders" have either incited this implicitly or by their silence on the issue. I agree in concept though to your suggestion.
"You refuse to consider the possibility that MAGAts intentionally provoked and agitated the coffee house staff and customers." ~ Dubya
Your intolerance is showing Mr. Dubya. Why don't you google the video and see for yourself. They were simply in there drinking coffee; not discussing politics or trying to create drama. The leftist student supervisor was the one that then made the commotion, simply because, like you apparently, she thinks anyone that supports the president is a fascist Nazi MAGAt.
"You don’t support Trump? You enthusiastically give money to the NRA, who you know contributed millions to elect Trump. This means at the very least you have financially supported Trump’s election indirectly." ~ Dubya
Good grief. I have been a member of the NRA since George H.W. Bush was president and long before I knew who Trump even was. The NRA would support any candidate that is pro-second amendment whether they are Democrat, Republican, or Independent. (Of course there are damned few Democrats that still take their oath to uphold the constitution seriously these days, especially when it comes to the Bill of Rights and the second amendment.) Regardless, your statement is foolish. It is akin to saying that if you donated to Planned Parenthood, you were supporting Hillary. While PP did indeed support HRC after receiving half a billion of tax payer dollars a year (unlike the NRA), I am certain there are many Planned Parenthood supporters that loathe Hillary as much as I do and yet still donate to PP.
Next, yes, as I stated there are some issues that I do support Trump with. So what? I also supported Bill Clinton on some issues when he was president, but I was anything but a supporter of him.
"You agree with Trump that Black athletes are SOBs for taking a knee. (And I won’t call you a racist for that.)" ~ Dubya
No. I think ALL athletes that protest our national anthem are politicizing sports and should be using better forums for making their opinions known. If the NFL team owners and the coaches allow them to do it though, such is their right. It is also my right to no longer watch the NFL at all, just like I didn't watch last year.
"Let’s agree we have a communication barrier. And it will always be there as long your ideology takes authority to unilaterally define words." ~ Dubya
Oh, I agree that we have a communication barrier alright. You are evidently angry that I clarified what I meant when I discerned the difference between liberals and leftists. I did that to prevent any misunderstandings. I didn't magically create these definitions on my own. It was based on a speech Dennis Prager made and other various conservatives of note had used to define the difference. J.G. made an interesting point on the topic that I also discussed with some family and friends. Perhaps to you, a leftist and a liberal are interchangeable. And yet, their is a distinction that has been made in some poly-sci circles. I was simply using those definitions to communicate as they made sense to me. It is not the same as me making up words/definitions like "MAGAts" or "C.R.A.P" etc.
"I noticed you surrounded the word 'leftist' with quotations marks. So, Mr. Paine, is the alleged 'family member' actually a leftist (by your definition) or not?" ~ J.G.
My ACTUAL and not alleged family member is probably indeed a borderline leftist. She agreed that she has contempt for aspects of the constitution (freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and 2nd amendment particularly) and that the end justifies the means in correcting it like antifa and the radical supporters of BLM do.
"It's a good thing you weren't referring to me, of course, because that would make you a liar." ~ J.G.
Truly. You were the catalyst for my long and impassioned discussion afterwards. That said, I am not certain why it even matters to you anyway. After all you stated, "you're not offending me by calling me a 'leftist'. Some of my best friends fall into that category (as you've chosen to define it)." So why the beef? Are you or aren't you a leftist by your own estimation? You don't need to answer that as it doesn't matter and I don't really care for the purpose of our discussions.
"You obviously haven't spent much time on college campuses in recent years, Mr. Paine. It's exactly opposite of how you just portrayed it. Not only is the free exchange of 'differing and varying ideals' encouraged and taking place, but the respect for diversity and variance of opinion and lifestyle is paramount. However, racism, bigotry and hate are not included as 'legitimate differing or varying ideals' -- as much as you think they should be. I'm fairly confident Jesus was of the same opinion." ~ J.G.
My wife, who is a moderate, teaches communications at the college here. I am pretty up to date with college campus culture, thank you. That said, it probably won't surprise you to learn that I disagree with you. There is hate and intolerance, but it is typically from the left and directed at conservative groups... especially any Christian-themed group. Pro-life groups are hateful towards women. Protecting our borders is racist. Supporting our 2nd amendment is hateful and uncaring of vulnerable students. Espousing conservative political views are considered racist, homophobic, sexist, xenophobic and so on in a majority of campus circles. (Sadly this is true even in a red state such as Utah.)
There is indeed respect for every iteration, diversity, and variance on campus... as long as it is left of center. I suppose I could lower myself by getting a MAGA hat and then put on my NRA jacket and walk around campus, but I really don't want my car keyed and groups of snowflakes yelling at me. :)
Oh, and just to try and mollify Mr. Dubya, while I despise the racism and fascism of various fringe right-wing groups, like the KKK, white nationalists, and so forth, I still support their right to free speech on campus and elsewhere just like I support the abhorrent speech from Communists, antifa, and pro-"choice" groups. All speech should be protected, no matter your or my opinion of it, unless it is inciting violence.
"Indeed it is. Which, itself, is a variation on the classic I'm Rubber, You're Glue retort." ~ TB3
While these are funny and even sadly approppo, I think "liar, liar, pants on fire" is one that I could justifiably use in some of the recent drivel.
Ah, so Dennis Prager, a man who says Trump is a “great president”, is the supreme authority on the meaning of words. The man who agrees with the same president who called a critical free press the “enemy of the people”. “The news media in the West pose a far greater danger to Western civilization than Russia does.” Yeah, right, Mr. Supreme Authority on Everything.
Not exactly a paragon of unbiased wisdom, is he? Being against a free press is anti-Constitutional and anti-American, oddly what he calls “leftists”. But IOKIYAR. I still feel free to define Prager as a radical far Right hypocrite. But go ahead, he is your authority.
You needed four Democrats to encompass just some of Trump’s failings . No examples were given so there is nothing to compare. Which “racist” Democrat said a previous president, or any black man, was not an American? How thin-skinned was Obama compared to Trump? Did he publicly attack everyone he didn’t like? Examples? What immature behavior from Clinton compares to Trump again? You’re going need a few hundred more Democrats to rival Trump’s thin-skinned, un-statesman-like, emotionally immature, and foolish nature. I have the peculiar notion that those characteristics, along with being unqualified and unprepared do not make a stable leader.
But let’s agree none of these characteristics indicate an unstable leader. Trump also leads them all in the hate, anger, divisiveness, and blame categories. Not to mention ignorance on a scale never seen in the White House. The man with the power of nuclear weapons didn’t even know what the nuclear triad was. Any leader exhibiting such ignorance and all those negative emotional attributes is not stable in my book. Next comes veracity. How many Democrats’ lies will you need to match the number of lies from Trump in only his first year. I don’t think you want to compare numbers here. My point is a pathological liar is also not a stable leader in my book.
But that’s OK. I side with Comey in saying Trump is not morally qualified to be president. And I am fully aware of moral failings in previous presidents. Trump is far beyond any distant second in morality. If you want supporting evidence, such as the list of lies, words of hate, racism and bigotry, or personal behavior, I shall be happy to accommodate.
Trump is also the most corrupt president in my lifetime. His wealthy crony elites are wasting unprecedented tax dollars for personal comfort, travel and vanity. Jared and Ivanka are qualified for what, exactly? His Cabinet is a rogues gallery of corruption, incompetence and personal antagonism for the agencies they run. He demands personal loyalty to him over faithful service to law and order and our Constitution. None of this indicates a stable leader to me.
I do have a strong feeling if Obama, or any Democrat demonstrated a tenth of Trump’s dishonesty, hate, and vile behavior, you would indeed by howling about how unstable he is. We needn’t go further. You have your opinion and I have mine.
Let’s hope for all our sakes he’s stable enough to not get us killed, or plunge us into a World War, and the worst Constitutional crisis since the Civil War.
I can say this though. When an ideology takes the authority upon themselves to demean and define their opposition by making up definitions of words, it is on the path of totalitarianism. Orwell noted this in actual Stalinism.(And shame on you for equating that tyrant and murderer with liberals. Intended or not, it reeks of hate and it is very Stalinist of you.) ;-)
Your side taking authority to define words says our words, and therefore we the speakers, don’t matter. We become automatically politically incorrect, marginalized, and demonized as evil, or as “Stalinist” as defined by only the ideology of the far Right.
If someone actually and directly calls you a racist, you’d better consider if they have an equal right to define the word as you do. If that’s the game, anyone can call you anything and you have nothing meaningful to say in return. THAT is becoming the way of the far Right. That is the way of conflict and chaos, not communication and most certainly not a level playing field of political debate. It is the way of tyranny. It is exactly a Stalinist tactic. Prager is being the Stalinist here.
Dave, I would agree that Trump is not morally fit to be president. I think the same is sadly true of too many of our past presidents, including many Democrat icons. I am not going to let you put me in a place where I am defending Trump simply so you can say that I do so.
"Trump is also the most corrupt president in my lifetime." ~ Dubya
Perhaps, but I wouldn't necessarily bet on it yet. History may prove otherwise. Unlike Obama, he hasn't put regulations in force to restrict or suspend domestic oil drilling while allowing oil platforms to be moved to Brazil just days after his buddy George Soros bought stock in Petrobas to make millions. Unlike Clinton, he didn't help the Chinese finally get a military satellite in orbit by bypassing national security issues and allowing Loral Communications (who was a good Clinton donor) to be approved by the commerce department instead of the previously needed approval by defense and state for "dual-use" technologies.
"His Cabinet is a rogues gallery of corruption, incompetence and personal antagonism for the agencies they run." ~ Dubya
Let's play Dave's game. This is just opinion and no evidence is cited once again. Further, the antagonism exhibited by some for the agencies they run is because some of these agencies are out of control, extra or un-constitutional, and in desperate need of being reined in to perform within their executive branch mandate to SERVE the people instead of burdening and harassing them.
"Let’s hope for all our sakes he’s stable enough to not get us killed, or plunge us into a World War, and the worst Constitutional crisis since the Civil War." ~ Dubya
I will drink to that though! :)
"I can say this though. When an ideology takes the authority upon themselves to demean and define their opposition by making up definitions of words, it is on the path of totalitarianism." ~ Dubya
Do you mean like leftists calling people supporting our president racists and fascists? Do you mean like snowflakes attacking people because they are pro-life, pro-second amendment, or pro-traditional marriage by calling and defining these people as sexist, fascist, and homophobes respectively? Do you mean like that? Or perhaps you mean redefining authoritarianism to include me because I don't agree with your leftist views? Do you mean like calling people "MAGAts" or saying that they are part of the "C.R.A.P"? Let's see if you ignore this a second time.
"Orwell noted this in actual Stalinism.(And shame on you for equating that tyrant and murderer with liberals." ~ Dubya
I didn't equate that with liberals. I equated it with leftists. :)
"If someone actually and directly calls you a racist, you’d better consider if they have an equal right to define the word as you do." ~ Dubya
Indeed -- like what has been done repeatedly at my expense. (Oh but I guess not always directly, so that gives the leftist making the charges plausible deniability, doesn't it?)
"If that’s the game, anyone can call you anything and you have nothing meaningful to say in return. THAT is becoming the way of the far Right. That is the way of conflict and chaos, not communication and most certainly not a level playing field of political debate. It is the way of tyranny. It is exactly a Stalinist tactic." ~ Dubya
PRECISELY! It is called using Alinsky tactics and is something that leftists have been doing for decades now. They get upset though if it is even perceived by them that the right is starting to use their same tactics against them. After all, they really don't want a level playing field. As an example, they have owned the mainstream media for decades, and now that Sinclair is expanding, they demand that a "conservative" view point be reined in. Same with antifa and snowflakes on college campuses rioting or shouting down any conservative speaker. After all, we cannot have diversity of political ideologies infecting these young minds, right?
Correction: Trump is far beyond any distant second in immorality.
”All speech should be protected, no matter your or my opinion of it, unless it is inciting violence.”
Even taking a knee at a sporting event?
Generally, I agree. Public safety demands restrictions against shouting “Fire” in a theatre.. Free speech does not give you the right to lie to the FBI. (Republicans excepted, of course. Then it’s a “witch hunt” by the “deep state”.) Trump’s pardoning of Libby is indicating it’s OK to lie to the FBI, especially to protect him. The liars will be pardoned for their new “Republicans Only” Free Speech. Do you deny this is happening?
I say a right to free speech does not entail the right to demand that everybody must permit anything to be said in their environment. Hate speech and Nazis should NOT have their way in every venue. Do you want them saluting Hitler and waving swastikas in YOUR church? It is the right of someone, or community, to deny the thugs if they so choose.
It is their right to exercise their hate in public, but not in my house. This can apply to one’s right to forbid weapons in one’s home. Just because Congress is prohibited from passing laws abridging the right to weapons or speech, I have the freedom to say, “Not in my home”.
Remember what free speech and a free press meant to the founders. It wasn’t for someone to incite hate and violence, nor to antagonize coffee shop patrons, nor to praise a jerk like Trump, but to speak to power. That is where our rights are to be defended and protected.
But look what happens to those who criticize the Big MAGAt, or demand sane gun laws. They are viciously attacked by the NRA, Trump and his State Media. Many are threatened personally. Tell me, who’s appropriately exercised right to free speech is attacked now?
Yes, old buddy, it goes both ways. And I don’t even have to redefine words.
”Do you mean like leftists calling people supporting our president racists and fascists?”
I have friends who voted for Trump. I don’t call them a racist or fascist. I DO call the racists and fascists who support Trump racists and fascists. Wouldn’t you? They are NOT “very fine people”. But we may differ in opinion on that.
Too much ambiguity for you?
”Do you mean like snowflakes attacking people because they are pro-life, pro-second amendment, or pro-traditional marriage by calling and defining these people as sexist, fascist, and homophobes respectively?”
No. Unless the persons attacked show themselves to be sexist, fascist, or homophobes. I personally oppose abortion, but won’t dictate a woman’s choice. I am a firearm owner in a traditional marriage. I support our Constitution.
Does that make me a “leftist”? Or what?
"Orwell noted this in actual Stalinism.(And shame on you for equating that tyrant and murderer with liberals." ~ Dubya
"I didn't equate that with liberals. I equated it with leftists." :)
Then shame on you again for dancing away from the point. I am a leftist that you employ a Stalinist tactic against.
”Do you mean like calling people "MAGAts" or saying that they are part of the "C.R.A.P"?”
LOL. These terms are not for everyone I disagree with. I disagreed with Hillary often. She is not a MAGAt, in case you haven’t noticed. Those demanding, “Lock her up!” without charges and conviction are by historic definition fascists, regurgitating their hateful C.R.A.P.
So why can’t I do what Prager does? And who gets to define “snowflakes”?
This is the difference. I’m a “leftist” liberal who supports the Constitution, proving the falsehood of Prager’s definition.
My terms define persons who embrace the hate and lies of Trump. You are not a MAGAt, to the extent you don’t buy his hate and lies. By your acceptance of Prager’s definitions, you exhibit a shared belief system of the Cult of Right-wing Authoritarian Personalities. I wouldn’t say so if it were not true. “Cults” indicates less than honest leaders and unquestioning followers. I rarely see you question FOX(R). By some miracle of conservative re-definition, there is no longer “state media”. Never mind the one that always attacks opponents of the ruling regime.
There are Right wing colleges too, amirite? Do they allow “leftists” to speak there? Hmm? Double standards again.
“It is exactly a Stalinist tactic.”
”PRECISELY! It is called using Alinsky tactics and is something that leftists have been doing for decades now.”
But IOKIYAR, as you’ve done the SAME THING here.
Liberals/leftists have been redefined, slimed and demonized for even more decades. We learned it from you. ;-)
"Flamebait" Person who must have the last word
[All non-violent political speech is protected] "Even taking a knee at a sporting event?" ~ Dubya
Yes Dave. Did you miss the part where I said they had a right to do it, assuming their owners and coaches allowed them to do so. I vehemently disagree with them, but it is their right. And it is my right to no longer support the NFL accordingly with my own free speech.
"I say a right to free speech does not entail the right to demand that everybody must permit anything to be said in their environment. Hate speech and Nazis should NOT have their way in every venue. Do you want them saluting Hitler and waving swastikas in YOUR church? It is the right of someone, or community, to deny the thugs if they so choose." ~ Dubya
I agree. People don't have the right to come into your house or business and so forth and have unfettered free speech that is contrary to your beliefs. You may ask them to leave at the pain of trespassing if they refuse.
"It is their right to exercise their hate in public, but not in my house. This can apply to one’s right to forbid weapons in one’s home. Just because Congress is prohibited from passing laws abridging the right to weapons or speech, I have the freedom to say, 'Not in my home'." ~ Dubya
I completely agree. So if it is "their right to exercise their 'hate' in public", how does that square with your stance on students wearing MAGA hats in a public college facility?
"Remember what free speech and a free press meant to the founders. It wasn’t for someone to incite hate and violence, nor to antagonize coffee shop patrons, nor to praise a jerk like Trump, but to speak to power. That is where our rights are to be defended and protected." ~ Dubya
I agree that it was not meant to incite violence, or antagonize people on their PRIVATE property, but you get things messed up a little after that. If someone wants to praise Trump or lying Hillary or even Hitler, then that grotesque speech is protected under the first amendment too, no matter how repugnant it might be to you and me.
"But look what happens to those who criticize the Big MAGAt, or demand sane gun laws. They are viciously attacked by the NRA, Trump and his State Media. Many are threatened personally. Tell me, who’s appropriately exercised right to free speech is attacked now?" ~ Dubya
No Dave, they are not necessarily "viciously attacked". They are simply the target of the other side of the debate's free speech. It works in both directions. Don't pretend that Media Matters and antifa and so forth haven't used their free speech to try and curtail that of others. They difference is that antifa uses violence to do so. While both sides of the spectrum have been guilty of excesses, I think there are far more cases from the left actually disrupting events and causing violence to shut down free speech from the right.
"Don't pretend."
Well there goes the basis for Dave's arguments.
"I think there are far more cases from the left actually disrupting events and causing violence to shut down free speech from the right."
Such as? Are we talking about those College kids that don't take kindly to firey nationalist rhetoric with a hint of racism?
"Don't pretend."
"Well there goes the basis for Dave's arguments." ~ Majormajor
That's not nice. It is funny as hell, but not nice. I want you to know that I nearly spit my soda all over the computer when I read that because I was laughing so hard. :)
"Are we talking about those College kids [interrupting free speech] that don't take kindly to firey nationalist rhetoric with a hint of racism?" ~ TB3
That would be a large part of the problem. Rather than have a contrasting speech or a protest outside the venue, they want to set fires and vandalize their own campus even when non-racists but conservative speakers come to visit like Milo Yiannopoulos at Berkeley or Ben Shappiro at various colleges or for that matter even folks like Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. It seems that any view is accepted by these "college kids" and their 60's-era faculty except one that is contrary to progressive dogma.
I would think that even if some idiot wanted to come make a case for racist segregation or what have you, wouldn't it be far more effective to let them speak to a practically empty audience rather than give them even more media attention? Wouldn't it be better to even hear their disgusting viewpoint and then counter that with another speaker giving counterpoints to it that explain why the racist is wrong? That seems like a better discussion of ideas rather than simply demanding progressive orthodoxy and shouting down or prohibiting the expression of anything else. Don't you think so, sir?
Now that we agree on so many areas of free speech, would you now educate me on how a lil ol’ leftist, gun owning, traditionally married person like me “opposes the Constitution”?
You seem to pretend to know the answer.
No Dave, they are not necessarily "viciously attacked". They are simply the target of the other side of the debate's free speech. It works in both directions. Don't pretend that Media Matters and antifa and so forth haven't used their free speech to try and curtail that of others.
“Not necessarily” meaning whatever you say it means? How about families of school shootings getting threatening calls. How about Alex Jones cruel and evil lies about little children at Sandy Hook getting gunned down? How about a goddam racist plowing into innocent human beings? How about “very fine people” chanting “White lives matter” marching with Nazis? You want to defend these thugs and point your blame at antifa? That’s what you’ve demonstrated.
How about you pretend to be the expert and compare the body counts racked up by Right wing racists to antifa? How about you show us the body count from those hated “leftists” compared to dead unarmed Blacks shot by trigger happy racist cops? How about you pretend the CRAP doesn’t play their fascist “Lügenpresse” Big Lie? And how about we pretend the morally bankrupt liar in the White House loves the Constitution by calling the press the ”enemy of the people” and calling for imprisoning citizens with no charges?
Apparently you pretend Trump and the Party of Trump revere the Constitution more than “leftists”, right?
How about you pretend we don’t know you are embracing Stalinist tactics as you fabricate the scary evil leftists and their “Alinsky tactics”?
But the poor wittow conservative tough guys are the real victims, aren’t they?
Go ahead and play your “victim card”? You have no idea, or have expressed no concern, about the real victims. The Right are the biggest crybabies I’ve ever seen. They need to make up their own definitions to accuse and blame others. The authoritarian Right has always hated and slimed liberals, then they decide to define and slime leftists. As if there is a difference. As if those who hate the most get to define anybody.
I denounce antifa violence, but they do know one thing. The only thing the Right truly understands is the threat of forceful resistance. This is why they need to parade around with weapons.
No wonder nobody wants that damn hate speech on campus, or arrogant disruptive MAGAts in a coffee shop. Don’t pretend wearing and flaunting those hats indoors at liberals is any less antagonistic than waving a damn Confederate flag at Black people. Don’t pretend both MAGA hats and that damn flag are not associated with racists. One represents a racist war started to preserve slavery and the other represent a racist birther in the White House. But the “leftists” are the real evil ones for stating the obvious and saying, “NO. You can’t spread that hate here.”
You know damn well if someone went into a redneck bar with a Hillary shirt on, they’d be kicked out, beaten or both. Then you would blame the victims for asking for it. You know you would.
And you tell ME “don’t pretend”?
How about you pretend you have evidence to support your accusations for a change? How about you pretend to be the expert again and show us the evidence where Media Matters curtailed anybody’s free speech? In fact, they call out the hate and lies of Alex Jones, Limbaugh, FOX(R) and your fellow ideologues.
Take your “pizzagate” and “deep state” and “secret society” and “false flag school shootings”, “Crisis actors”, and “leftists hate the Constitution” lies and pretend the conservative liars are honest humans instead of fascistic hate mongers. These are your people. This is the warped ideology of hate pretending to be conservatism.
I dare you to whine about being a victim when parents and friends of dead kids at Sandy Hook are slimed by the NRA and Alex Jones.
And I also dare you to list Right wing Con-servative colleges that invite liberals to speak to their students. Come on, show us how Right wing and religious colleges are paragons of “diverse viewpoints”.
By ignoring this, you pretend you don’t have double standards.
I dare you show us how many liberals are invited to speak at “Liberty University” before you pontificate on the EEVIL liberal colleges. In 2009, after complaints from trustees, parents, and donors, the university derecognized its campus Democratic club, saying the national party’s platform went against the school’s "moral principles". But Trump is fine, amirite?
How tolerant. No suppression there, nosiree Bob.
Let me help you out. Bernie Sanders is the only liberal presidential candidate to ever speak there. Did he bring a message of hate and divisiveness? No. Quite the opposite.
“I came here today because I believe from the bottom of my heart that it is vitally important for those of us who hold different views to be able to engage in a civil discourse,” said the “leftist” senator to a crowd of nearly 12,000. “It is easy to go out and talk to people who agree with you.”
Go ahead, compare that to Mr. “Lock her up!” The far Right and Party of Trump have largely abandoned any semblance of basic human decency. Accuse. Blame. Make hateful crap up. Repeat ad nauseum. The Big MAGAt tweets that Comey, now a private citizen, should be in jail for “many crimes”. But those evil anti-Constitutional leftists are the real suppressors of free speech, right?
You pretend to tell us how few racists there are. Based on what? Your superior intellect? Your extensive research? No. None of the above. It is purely arrogance and pretended authority to define words that suit your ideological purposes.
How about you do that before you pretend anything else?
I would think that even if some idiot wanted to come make a case for racist segregation or what have you, wouldn't it be far more effective to let them speak to a practically empty audience rather than give them even more media attention? Wouldn't it be better to even hear their disgusting viewpoint and then counter that with another speaker giving counterpoints to it that explain why the racist is wrong? That seems like a better discussion of ideas rather than simply demanding progressive orthodoxy and shouting down or prohibiting the expression of anything else. Don't you think so, sir?
It seems fair, doesn’t it? Give equal time to Nazis. What harm could come of it?
No. A public university shouldn’t feature racist speakers. It validates them. Why pay, and therefore validate, a racist when otherwise, there would be no need for someone else be paid to say “Racism is bad”.
Why inflame anger and hate in the first place? As we agreed, hate speech should not be allowed everywhere and anywhere. It is not speaking to power as the founders intended. Let them rant on the corner, write to Congress, tweet from the White House, or go on Alex Jones or FOX(R) where they are welcomed.
Discussions can be better facilitated, and far cheaper, simply by examining their words in print or broadcast. It’s not like their hate would be hard to find. In fact it is expanding everywhere, here as well as in Europe.
"legal objectivity is a myth" shout the leftist students disrupting Josh Blackman for roughly eight minutes as he attempted to give a presentation in support of the First Amendment, and calling him a "white supremacist."at City University of New York (CUNY) School of Law.
Black conservative shouted down for speaking ‘against own people’
Student protesters heckled and repeatedly shouted over former NFL star and conservative commentator Burgess Owens when he gave a speech at Hobart and William Smith Colleges.
One student derided Owens as an Uncle Tom, while other protesters asked him accusatory questions and then shouted over him as he attempted to answer.
Columbia students shouting down conservatives is 'free speech'
Hundreds of Columbia University students are rallying in support of the “free speech” of the protesters who shouted down a Tommy Robinson lecture earlier this month.
They are demanding that the administration abstain from punishing the protesters, calling the disruptive demonstration "a model of informed political engagement."
"[My actual family member] agreed that she has contempt for aspects of the constitution (freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and 2nd amendment particularly) and that the end justifies the means in correcting it like antifa and the radical supporters of BLM do." ~~ T. Paine
She agreed with whom? (I can't believe she agreed with your definition.)
"You were the catalyst for my long and impassioned discussion afterwards. That said, I am not certain why it even matters to you anyway. After all you stated, 'you're not offending me by calling me a 'leftist'. Some of my best friends fall into that category (as you've chosen to define it).' So why the beef? Are you or aren't you a leftist by your own estimation?" ~~ T. Paine
Why does it matter? Because you've taken it upon yourself to define a word whose universal definition isn't accepted as such.
Sure, I'm a leftist, I suppose, but I'm certainly not "anti-constitutional" by any measure. Since I'm not anti-constitutional, it seems as though your insistence on calling me a "leftist", which by your own definition (and only yours along with a handful of alt-right white supremacists) means I'm anti-constitutional, you're defining me as something I'm not (i.e., "anti-constitutional").
It's similar to if I decided to start calling you a racist. Although it apparently isn't agreed upon by all as to what constitutes this label, precisely, I'd be remiss to label you this if you were able to give me the reasons why you're not.
"My wife, who is a moderate, teaches communications at the college here. I am pretty up to date with college campus culture, thank you." ~~ T. Paine
My wife is in the aviation industry. That doesn't make me an expert on the internal culture of how that industry, or her company, works or operates. I don't attend her training sessions on subjects as diverse as preventing bias in the workplace, understanding sexual harassment, or treating customers with respect and dignity. I probably know a little more than the "person on the street", but that's about it.
Nevertheless, I'm sorry your wife's employer is so out-of-step with what's going on at public universities around the country. Maybe it's totally different in Lilly-white Utah. I don't know. I can tell you, with no uncertainly, it's different on this coast and the west coast, and probably at most (if not all) public universities across the nation.
Does your wife work for a public university?
"All speech should be protected, no matter your or my opinion of it, unless it is inciting violence." ~~ T. Paine
I'm in agreement with you, although I'm in disagreement as to what fairly recent Supreme Court decisions have defined as "speech".
As I already mentioned, hate speech is protected. Likewise, so is anti-hate speech. So what's your "beef"?
Paine is leaving out the other side of the story, the Right has made an art form of suppressing Liberal speech and the ability to vote. Reagen got rid of the Fairness Doctrine which helped the Right have more Free Speech than the Left. Fox News, a highly partisan propaganda outlet comes directly from the elimination of the FD.
Mike Powell, heading the FCC instituted the final phase of media consolidation resulting in Clear Channel being allowed to gobble up 1600 radio stations and having Conservative shock jocks flooding the airways with Right Wing talking points 24/7.
The Republican Supreme Court in 2013 dismantled the Voting Rights Act of 1965 so that the Red states could go back to suppressing the Black vote with hundreds of new voting laws designed to make voting more difficult for Liberals.
Gerrymandering is done coast to coast to give Republicans a huge advantage to Conservative candidates, my favorite Liberal Dennis Kasinich lost his seat due to gerrymandering.
Diabold, a Conservative voting machine company has helped many Republicans win through election fraud for decades also.
This list is just a small part of all the ways Republicans cheat to control the government all levels.
Mike Powell, heading the FCC instituted the final phase of media consolidation resulting in Clear Channel being allowed to gobble up 1600 radio stations and having Conservative shock jocks flooding the airways with Right Wing talking points 24/7.
So that's the reason Air America folded like tent after Occupy Wall Street. You sure it wasn't their message?
You sure it wasn't their message?
Right. Not enough hate, blame, accusations, conspiracy theories, and lies to thrive like Hate Radio. Oh, and their's the far Right owners like Murdoch, Sinclair, Clear Channel and their money behind them. SOOOO much "liberal media", amirite?
Alex Jones and the "false flag shootings" at Sandy Hook are fine, fair and balanced messages. THAT sells and resonates to Trumpists. Right?
There's your answer.
So it was the message of Air America that doomed it. Clearly somebody hasn't looked up the history of the Rush Limbaugh Show and the stations it started with.
"You obviously haven't spent much time on college campuses in recent years, Mr. Paine." Do you realize Mr. Paine we now have a new standard for being able to express an opinion! It's now you must have been there and or experienced it.
I seem to recall asking Little Buddy Dave how racism has effected him. I pretty sure he said it hadn't. With the "new standard" now in place unless someone has experience racism or fascism or sexism, or any of the endless "isms" that the left accuses conservatives of, it must be show how they have been personally effected.
Since Little Buddy by his own words has not been effected by racism, he cannot accuse anything, anyone or any organization of being racist. Seems fair enough. Unless he wasn't tell em the truth.
I seem to recall asking Little Buddy Dave how racism has effected him.
I get ad hominem attacks from racists all the time.
" 'Not necessarily' meaning whatever you say it means? How about families of school shootings getting threatening calls. How about Alex Jones cruel and evil lies about little children at Sandy Hook getting gunned down? How about a goddam racist plowing into innocent human beings? How about 'very fine people' chanting 'White lives matter' marching with Nazis? You want to defend these thugs and point your blame at antifa? That’s what you’ve demonstrated." ~ Dubya
That is what I mean by "not necessarily", Dave. I do NOT defend the thugs that make those threatening calls, or plow their vehicle into innocent bystanders, etc. They are often using the same violent and vile tactics that antifa uses. I don't defend those on the right that resort to those tactics despite your asinine accusation to the contrary. I condemn those idiots. It would be nice if you would do that same for once and condemn antifa and those rioters attaching themselves to BLM instead of implicitly justifying their actions by simply ignoring them while attacking others. I condemn both the right and the left when they resort to such tactics. How about you start doing the same?
Dave, I don't need to state body counts by right-wing racists in comparison to antifa. Every decent person already acknowledges and condemns the neo-Nazi's, KKK, etc. Sadly there are a bunch of vermin leftists that seem to think that BLM riots in Ferguson and antifa riots on college campuses are acceptable. How about you, Dave? Do you think they are acceptable, or are you going to turn this into being about right-wing extremists again whom we have already disowned and condemned?
Damn, Majormajor was making a joke about Dave "pretending", but I think there is a whole hell of a lot more truth there after all.
"As if those who hate the most get to define anybody." ~ Dubya
Precisely... says the man calling everyone that disagrees with his progressive dogma by epithets such as racists, fascists, and authoritarians. (Or at least saying they exhibit those traits according to Dave, since he needs plausible deniability that he never "actually" called us those names.) Your hate is palpable... and projected... again.
There are other folks comments to which I need to respond on this thread, but I have just been handed a project that may make it a while before I get the chance to do so. Cheers!
I get ad hominem attacks from racists all the time.
How does that effect you?
Chuck, do you consider yourself a white supremacist?
"...I have just been handed a project that may make it a while before I get the chance to [answer other folk's comments]."
Mr Paine, I sincerely hope it was a "honeydew" list you were given, and you're not stealing time from AT&T when you should be working. ;-)
JG,
MM would never admit he’s a white nationalist. He’s a Trumpist, after all. He’s fine with birtherism and hate for the foreign Black Usurper. He’s NEVER acknowledged any of Trump’s lies. He agrees news organizations are the “enemy of the people”. He constantly invokes Black crime rates, and questions the harm, or even existence, of white racism. He has NEVER criticized or disagreed with his Dear Leader. I bet he considers himself a “Christian Nationalist”.
Also, he won’t give you an honest answer.
Mr. Paine,
What? Didn’t you think my response to MM’s demand was funny? It was a joke. Or was there a whole hell of a lot more truth there after all?
They are often using the same violent and vile tactics that antifa uses.
There you go again, equating far Right killers with property damage. “Fair and balanced”, amirite?
“Vermin leftists” aside, you don’t defend Nazis per se, but agreed with Trump that “very fine people” marched with them. That means you defended people who marched with Nazis. Feel free to change your position or correct my error.
It would be nice if you would do that same for once and condemn antifa and those rioters attaching themselves to BLM
Did that already. You ignored it.
Why do you want to dismiss the body count?
If I have unfairly called out racists, fascists, and authoritarians, feel free to show me where. If I falsely attributed anyone with those characteristics, feel free to show me where.
I admit I have said things like, “If you agree with racists, fascists etc. you MIGHT be seen as one.” Do you have a problem with that, sir? I suppose you do, if you agree BLM is a racist hate group and very fine people marched with Nazis. Such agreement is your issue, not my false accusation. You are not a fascist. You are not a racist. I know you don’t agree with all their hate. You just agree with some of their ideas and statements. I understand, for those people are all “good flag waving Christians” if you ask them. They are also hateful liars.
Correct me if I’m mistaken. Maybe you have modified you positions from those previously stated.
I am a democracy advocate and Constitution supporting Leftist, and proud of it. Now what’s your problem with that? Am I a liar? Am I ignorant?
Or do I just disagree when YOUR side seizes sole authority to define words and therefore me? After all the “Libtards, “Liberals hate America”, “Liberals have no family values”, “Liberals ruined the country” “All news organizations that don’t praise Trump are enemies of the people”, “Liberalism is a mental illness” etc. ad nauseum, how do you expect us to shut up and accept that hate? Oh, that’s right. Only white conservatives are the real victims. That is your message here. Still have double standards for colleges? ALL of them must accept far Right demagogues, but special ones can refuse all liberals. Got it.
I have news for you. MOST racists and far Right thugs don’t have KKK or Nazi membership cards. They are in every redneck bar and militia group. You forgot to count them. Please get back to us when you have a new number...or definition, of racist.
So now I suppose I can’t call birthers racists? Of course, if that is for you alone to determine, then you are the authority on definitions. Am I using the wrong term? If so, please correct me, sir.
"MM would never admit he’s a white nationalist."
I agree. He likes the feeling of hate, but he's never going to admit it to us.
Like his president, he lacks a moral compass. He also lacks courage.
"He’s a Trumpist, after all. He’s fine with birtherism and hate for the foreign Black Usurper."
Too bad he lacks the courage to show his true colors.
"He’s NEVER acknowledged any of Trump’s lies."
Agreed. Of course in his mind, Trump never lies. The man lies every day, but he doesn't acknowledge the obvious.
"He agrees news organizations are the 'enemy of the people'."
Except Fox News, of course. Everybody else offers up "fake news". Everybody! ;-)
"He constantly invokes Black crime rates, and questions the harm, or even existence, of white racism."
He doesn't think there's white racism -- only racism of blacks against whites. Pretty fanatical, I know.
"He has NEVER criticized or disagreed with his Dear Leader."
Trump is Chuck's savior.
"I bet he considers himself a 'Christian Nationalist'."
Probably, except I wonder how he comes to terms with Trump being his savior? Can you have two as a Christian?
"Also, he won’t give you an honest answer."
Never! He's even more evasive than Mr. Paine. Both are professional dancers.
Chuck is a real head case, he is so partisan that it has turned into a neurosis. And that is why we all love you Chuck!
JG,
Trump being his savior? Can you have two as a Christian?
Yes you can, for Don the Con is a miracle sent by Republican Jesus.
Republican Jesus thinks so highly of the rich, he sent Trump to be America’s savior.
Republican Jesus doesn’t care much for silly commandments and notions about loving your neighbor. He wants more tax cuts for the rich and corporations. Republican Jesus wants to kick the evil regulators out of his Wall Street temples. Banks have all the money, (and that means “free speech” to buy Republicans,) so they can do whatever they want, as their Lord intended.
Republican Jesus believes in rule by Divine Right of Wealth.
Republican Jesus also wants to see more pollution in the air and water, because that gives the rich more money, AND they get to poison the environment. That’s a big Twofer for them.
Republican Jesus and his only prophet the Big MAGAt, show us the way, the truth, and the light. For they alone can shine their beacon of truth, casting away the disloyal enemies of the people and their failing Fake News. The Nationalist Prophet shall silence the evil Leftists, Moderates, RINOs and other traitors who question his Supreme Divine Authority.
And Republican Jesus wants to cut aid to the poor. He knows the non-white poor are undeserving of welfare and food stamps, because he knows they are lazy thugs, and are the greediest of all Americans. Everybody knows they lack the moral purity of the Savior of America.
And don’t get me started on how much Republican Jesus and our White Nationalist Savior LOVE guns, and NRA money.
If only you BELIEVED, JG. You’d know how much we are blessed!
James, I understand why Chuck adores Trump. They're so much alike.
Ironically, and of the dripping variety, the demagogue in the White House will prove to be the savior for the Democratic Party also.
Trump's presidency is so appealing to Chuck -- and apparently to a lessor degree, Mr. Paine, but appealing nonetheless. I've made this claim many times, and have asked Mr. Paine to stop using stereotypes from a bygone era (e.g., "liberal press"), but he either discounts my claims or ignores them. Click through and read on...
"Trump voters were angry about how the country has changed. They saw liberals encouraging diversity (through same-sex marriage, transgender rights and immigration) at the expense of traditional values, roles and institutions (e.g., traditional religious beliefs and organizations).
Even worse, Republicans were unable to roll back or stop the tide of change. Trump’s cultural populism was an important part of his campaign message, and it continues to underlie his appeal to older, less educated, white voters, particularly those in rural areas.
It is an America tied to cultural values and behaviors of the 1950s, not the 21st century. That has proved appealing to older white voters, evangelicals, the less educated and those living in rural America, but not so to the rest of the country."
Both Chuck and Mr. Paine desire to live in Marty McFly's 1955 -- without the high progressive and corporate tax rates, of course, but still with lingering school segregation and sans the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act. That's their image of Donald Trump's "Make America Grate Again".
As their savior president repeats way, way, too often, "so sad".
Little (Dave) Buddy, and jG, Your hate is palpable... and projected... again.
jG,
As long as you have stopped beating your wife.
I am betting all this attention from the three Liberals made Chuck pee his pants!
"I am betting all this attention from the three Liberals made Chuck pee his pants!"
I believe today's phrase is "leftists"
...attention from three Leftists...
Little do you know, I have been right handed all my life.
Good grief. I guess I should have known better. I comment that I will be away for a bit, and the kids start acting up because dad is gone. I guess some folks just cannot play nice in the sandbox.
Majormajor, your responses have been funny and well done as of late. Edgy but without going over the line. Too bad others don't know where that line is AGAIN.
After the better part of a decade of my blog, I have grown weary of the hatred and nonsense from Commies, leftists, and those that flat out hate America and thus feel the need to "fundamentally transform" it into a progressive utopia where there are as many genders as their are states in the union. There is no hate except for Christians and conservatives. Nobody has to work because the corporations pay 100% of the taxes while being owned by the state, and there are no longer any national borders as we all sit in a circle and sing praises to Marx and Soros.
Majormajor, I appreciate your restraint despite the nonsense being directed at you. Feel free to say what you will in response going forward, sir.
I think the days are very few until I shut this blog down completely and move on to something different as a project. Cheers!
TP,
I think you have just provided us with the definitive definition of nonsense.
“ After the better part of a decade of my blog, I have grown weary of the hatred and nonsense from Commies, leftists, and those that flat out hate America and thus feel the need to "fundamentally transform" it into a progressive utopia where there are as many genders as their are states in the union. There is no hate except for Christians and conservatives. Nobody has to work because the corporations pay 100% of the taxes while being owned by the state, and there are no longer any national borders as we all sit in a circle and sing praises to Marx and Soros.“
Jerry,
As you noted with Mr. Paine's latest definition of us.
Nonsense = con-servatism.
Mr. Paine is weary of our not accepting his definitions and accusations that we oppose the Constitution. No hate there, nosiree. In fact, you’re a "hateful leftist" if you even see hate there.
And don't bring up their double standards on college "free speech". It makes them think we hate them.
They really are delicate and sensitive...what's the word?
Jerry, sometimes the best way to point out absurdity is by being absurd and taking it to its ultimate conclusion.
Snowflake. The word is snowflake, Dave. It is a group that is overwhelmingly comprised of leftists and ignorant kids that are easily manipulated by leftist commie faculty into believing their nonsense.
Interesting definition of snowflake, TP, given that the country’s biggest snowflake is our president, a position in which no matter who possesses it, and no matter what decision he makes, millions of people will oppose it and criticize it.
I’m going to assume that this is another one of your examples of “being absurd and taking it to its ultimate conclusion”.
Maybe I misread it but I thought we were just having fun with Chuck, at his expense of course. I do not hate Chuck and would like to see him continue to comment here and at The Rant. I have my differences with him but oddly enough I have communicated with him at least once a week for 8 years, that is more than many family members!
I want to see what he has to say.
Thanks Woodenman, what you just observed from Little Buddy and jG is hate speech Calling it fun is a lie. It isn't the first time they have exposed themselves for been the hate filled leftist they are.
BTW, been working in the garden so no, I haven't peed in my pants, sweat a lot, but pee not a drop. Thanks for your concern on the condition of my bladder. Since treating my cancer it hasn't always been stable, but seems to now be returning to normal
Dave L.B. share with us how under President Trump you have experienced racism due to any of his actions. Forced to ride in the back of the bus in Detroit, separate but equal schools now in place, interracial marriage now illegal, back door your only way in, KKK seen on your block? It'd be nice once if you back up your claims/lies with something other than bombastic words...so put up or shut up.
Why should I dump on President Trump, to garner your approval? Don't need or want it. Further seeing how you react to Mr. Paine who has stated his disapproval of the President of the United States, what would I gain? My experience with lefties is if you give an inch they demand more and never ever meet you half way like a liberal will. So beat your drums all you want, i know your tactics.
jG, have you stopped beating your wife? Thought you'd like to see how your question about white supremacist feels when turned around. Do you "like" beating your wife?
Interesting how the first to bring up Christianity are the 2 leftist, must be they are running out of things to say. I believe Christianity will endure as it has in the past, so have at it. Christianity and its beliefs will out last your faith in big government, man caused climate change and 9-11 being an "inside job".
That’s a lot of words for our Majomajor.
Who is “Dave L.B.” anyway?
so put up or shut up
We put up with MM all the time, as he denies the very existence of white racism. No such thing. Not even in his Birther Big MAGAt. And if there were, Mr. Paine has either counted, or accurately estimated, the number of all of the white racists in the country. Very few indeed, we learn.
Since Mr. Paine is our only expert on “true racism”, I humble defer to his authority to inform MM whether white racism really exists.
First they say we’re “anti-Constitutional”. Then they think we’re anti-Christian because we disagree with angry white conservatives.
I said nothing against Christianity. “Republican Jesus” is a fiction. A running joke, satirizing angry White Christians who believe Jesus ordained Trump to save America.
Poor Majormajor still can’t see white racism. I wonder who else would agree with him? Hmm. I’m afraid to say.
I’m still another “leftist” who hopes for the best outcome for all cancer patients, no matter their beliefs. Universal healthcare would go a long way towards more people surviving cancer. That’s my liberal Christian upbringing. Note the “bleeding heart” term conservatives employ against liberal/leftist compassion. We’re a bunch of bleeding heart snowflakes who want poor Trump voters to have access to preventive healthcare. No wonder we need to be demonized as “anti-Constitutionalist haters of Christianity”.
And bravo to Woodenman for showing his compassion as well.
If only there was such basic human decency in the White House. When Trump’s McCarthy-ite friend had AIDS, Don Don wouldn’t even go near him. Later he would shut down entirely the Presidential Advisory Council on HIV/AIDS AIDS.
The Washington Post reported:
“Roy Cohn believed Trump had cut him off because he was HIV-positive. ‘I can’t believe he’s doing this to me,’ Cohn said at the time. ‘Donald pisses ice water.’ Trump always denied any anti-gay motivation, saying that he had always known that Cohn was gay and never minded it. … At his memorial service, Trump stood silently in the rear.”
During the week between Christmas and New Year’s, he fired the remaining members of the Presidential Advisory Council on HIV/AIDS en masse. The form letters letting them go were delivered without warning by way of FedEx.”
Classy guy, that Don Don.
The New York Times reported:
The Senate voted on Wednesday to overturn an Obama-era rule that restricted automobile lenders from discriminating against minorities by charging them higher fees for car loans, in the latest attempt by Republican lawmakers to roll back financial regulations.
It’s good thing we have a not racist Party Of Trump to fix what the Black Guy broke, amirite?
"pure drivel from an angry black leftist."
Can't argue with "Just the Alternative Facts", can I?
I mean, just look at how he logically and factually shreds the "enemy of the people" and the "fake news" at the Post and Times.
I sure wish I was as smart and white as he is. I take a knee to his authority, for he is superior to me in every way.
"I sure wish I was as smart and white as he is. I take a knee to his authority, for he is superior to me in every way."
Wow, sounds like someone has a complex, my advice, seek professional help.
In the meanwhile, when will Dave, a.k.a. Little Buddy, disavowal the racist, black nationalist, Nation of Islam?
I woulds like to make a suggestion that we veer away from interpersonal politics to talk about the broader issues. I pointed out how Republicans suppress the will of the people through hardball politics and that false flags operations in England and Syria are extremely dangerous.
Neither got much of a response but I think these topics are safer than the personal stuff going on. This place is not the most important thing in my life but I would like to see it continue.
Chuck, I am sorry if I unknowingly hurt your feelings, I did not know you had serious medical issues to deal with.
"First they say we’re 'anti-Constitutional'. Then they think we’re anti-Christian because we disagree with angry white conservatives." ~~ Dave Dubya
Nail. On. Head.
Of course both Chuck and Mr. Paine always become offended when they're faced with the hypocrisy of their chosen politics and their faith.
"Poor Majormajor still can’t see white racism. I wonder who else would agree with him? Hmm. I’m afraid to say." ~~ Dave Dubya
Gee, no tellin'.
Let me get back to you on that.
"Universal healthcare would go a long way towards more people surviving cancer." ~~ Dave Dubya
You're absolutely correct, Dave. And making those executives of primarily petrochemical, petroleum, and chemical producers criminally responsible for the carcinogens they put into the air, land and water we all live on.
"jG, have you stopped beating your wife?" ~~ Majormajor (aka, Chuck)
Not yet, Chuck. She's improving every year, but I still take about nine out of ten sets when we play tennis every other weekend. ;-)
"I woulds like to make a suggestion that we veer away from interpersonal politics to talk about the broader issues." ~~ Woodenman1954
Sound good, James, but first we need to get over the language differences.
Possibly we should hire an interpreter, or even better: buy dictionaries for Chuck and Mr. Paine.
James,
You have no need to apologize for something you didn't know about and had no harm at heart when you said it. So be good to yourself and understand I am not offended at all by your comments towards me. I'm going to be ok...really, it will all work out.
What is your take on Comey throwing McCabe under the bus today? Also, got the feeling that the Russian/Trump thing is fast becoming in the rear view mirror of Mueller. Not that the items are related but Comey could be called as a witness by Mueller..under oath, could be interesting.
Your thoughts.
Unfortunately, and unlike Majormajor, I’m not sure I can “disavowal” the racist, black nationalist Nation of Islam. I may need him to show me the way, and “disavowal” racist white nationalists. So far, he refuses to acknowledge they even exist.
He’s not setting a very good example, is he? And why is he angry with me for wanting poor Trump voters to have access to preventative health care?
Is it because I don't believe in the Republican health care philosophy, "Let 'em die"? No wonder he sees me as a vile person.
From my lowly position, I can only accept his superior morality, honesty, wisdom, and grasp of the facts.
I have, of course, condemned racism from anyone for any other group of human beings, but I just can’t get the hang of disavowalling them.
But in the spirit of cooperation, I’ll give it a shot.
I hereby disavowal “rcst, blck ntnlst Ntn f slm”. I hope I didn't misunderstand his demand. Due to my own ignorance, his new definitions of terms can throw me off a bit.
I feel better already for trying. But something tells me this will only raise Majormajor's anger level further than it already is.
He may even forget to tell me there's no such thing as white nationalism and white racism. Or maybe I need to show him my birth certificate first?
At least I don't have anger issues. I've learned to accept the authority of my moral, intellectual, and racial superiors, in Trump AND in his loyal followers.
James,,
As you can see
"I woulds like to make a suggestion that we veer away from interpersonal politics to talk about the broader issues." might be a problem for Little Buddy Dave.
Sad that he can not disavowal the largest racist organization in the USA, the Nation of Islam. It would seem to be such a simple thing to do for someone who is a committed enemy of racism.
“Not yet, Chuck. She's improving every year, but I still take about nine out of ten sets when we play tennis every other weekend.”
GREAT reply to a worthless question, JG!
“I hereby disavowal “rcst, blck ntnlst Ntn f slm”. I hope I didn't misunderstand his demand. Due to my own ignorance, his new definitions of terms can throw me off a bit.”
Dave, This comment following JG’s has me rolling on the floor in hysterics. And the frosting on the cake is that it appears that MM doesn’t ever get it!
The problem with hate groups is the crime they instigate. Interestingly, but not surprisingly, it is anti-black groups that cause more crime than any other group.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/14/politics/charts-explain-us-hate-groups/index.html
GREAT reply to a worthless question, like "do you consider yourself a white supremacist?"
Of course I do not consider myself a white supremacist...but I bet jG knows people who do!
Jerry, has it ever occurred to you that wife beating and racism is not funny or acceptable to me? Wish I could say that about Little Buddy Dave.
He and I guess now you can't disavow the largest racist organization in the USA, the Nation of Islam, no matter how you spell it. You both think racism is funny. Or could it be you're both racist?
I don't know Jerry, it's up to you
"Of course I do not consider myself a white supremacist...but I bet jG knows people who do!" ~~ Majormajor (aka, Chuck)
and...
"Jerry, has it ever occurred to you that wife beating and racism is not funny or acceptable to me?" ~~ Majormajor (aka, Chuck)
Chuck, it appears you're acknowledging both wife-beating and racism are unacceptable to you. Good! We're getting somewhere!
Now, based upon your acknowledgement, how can you legitimately support and defend a proven racist as your president? Don't you see incongruity and incompatibility here? (That's a rhetorical question, Chuck.)
Is this like the "good Germans", Chuck, who supported Adolf Hitler -- yet had nothing specifically against the Jews (or gypsies, or liberals, or unionists or communists...)?
Please, Chuck, help me understand this.
Sorry jG where is your proof that President Trump is a racist? Nice try though.
What are your thoughts about the Nation of Islam, the largest racist organization in the US? You support them? The SPLC doesn't.
We will be getting some where when you answer that question.
I KNEW Majormajor would show us Hitler wasn’t a racist!
The Jewish Anti-Defamation League has a different opinion on racism than our White Conservative Trumpist.
Racism has existed throughout human history. It may be defined as the hatred of one person by another — or the belief that another person is less than human — because of skin color, language, customs, place of birth or any factor that supposedly reveals the basic nature of that person.
Never mind those Jews were on the receiving end of Hitler’s hate. Snowflakes, amirite?
A black guy can be from one of many countries, saying he's is or isn't from one doesn't make you a racist.
Even if the Black Guy is president of the United States? Got it. You know what. I don’t think Majormajor is a real American. As he demanded of me, put up or shut up.
Let’s see the birth certificate!!
Don Don declared, “Excuse me, they didn't put themselves down as neo-Nazis.”
Excuse me, he must have missed an awful lot that wasn’t on FOX(R).
On May 13, 2017, white supremacist Richard Spencer led a rally in Charlottesville to protest the city's plans to remove the statue of Lee. The Ku Klux Klan held another rally in Charlottesville on July 8.
August 12th: The “Unite the Right” rally gathered at Emancipation Park. White nationalist protesters again chanted white supremacist and Nazi-era slogans.
They chanted, “Heil Trump!” They chanted, “Jews will not replace us!” There are your “very fine people”. (Trump and Majormajor see no racism here.)
Some waved Confederate flags, and others held posters targeting Jews that read "the Goyim know", using the word for non-Jews, as well as "the Jewish media is going down". Protesters also shouted racial slurs and "Jew" when Charlottesville mayor Michael Signer was mentioned, and they waved Nazi flags and signs claiming, among other things, that "Jews are Satan's children". Dozens wore Donald Trump's red "Make America Great Again" campaign hats.
(Mr. Paine sees nothing provocative about those “free speech” hats.)
MM’s trusted SPLC notes:
Those speaking at the Charlottesville “Unite the Right” event include Richard Spencer, who spoke at the first Charlottesville rally, Mike Enoch of The Right Stuff, Matthew Heimbach of the white nationalist Traditionalist Workers Party, Augustus Invictus, a pagan neo-fascist who has pledged to bring about a second Civil War, and Michael Hill of the League of the South.
“Unite the Right” organizer Jason Kessler is a relative newcomer to the white nationalist scene.
“I don’t understand why they’re trying to pretend that disproportionate Jewish influence is a conspiracy … they have this enormous wealth and they’re using it to wield power.” — LIVE with Jason Kessler: Unite The Right (7/17/2017).
Regarding the League of the South, a neo-Confederate hate group that wants to bring about a theocratic white nationalist state in the south. Kessler has stated, “Dr. Michael Hill from the League of the South, these are good confederate voices … because this is about the Confederacy which is an American ethnic group,” reflecting the League’s bizarre conception of “white Anglo-Celtic Southerners” as a separate and distinct ethnic polity from the rest of America.
Neo-Nazis at “Stormfront” also promoted the “Unite the Right” rally:
UNITE THE RIGHT
CHARLOTTESVILLE, VA
On Saturday August 12th. the National Socialist Movement will join Our Allies the Traditionalist Workers Party, League of the South and other Nationalist Front Members in Charlottesville, VA. This Rally is to defend Free Speech and our Heritage at the Lee Monument. This will take place at Lee Park, 201 2nd. Street NE #299 Charlottesville, VA 22902. This is a call to all NSM Members to be in Charlottesville and show support.
Don Don lied. They DID put themselves down as neo-Nazis.
But I’m sure Majormajor is just as “not racist” as these guys.
Majormajor doubles down on Hitler not being racist. Heil, Majormajor!
"Even if the Black Guy is president of the United States?" And what is your point or are you still in pretend world?
...As he pretends to miss the point. Surely he isn’t so dense as to not get the point. Or is he?
I report, you decide.
Does anyone besides him know what words I put in his mouth?
"Sorry jG where is your proof that President Trump is a racist?" ~~ Majormajor (aka, Chuck)
Here are ten reasons. How many do you need? Link through to the article. There are many many more.
1. Trump’s real-estate company tried to avoid renting apartments to African-Americans in the 1970s and gave preferential treatment to whites, according to the federal government. ("...President Richard Nixon’s Justice Department — not exactly the radicals of the day — sued Trump and his father, Fred Trump, for systematically discriminating against blacks in housing rentals.")
2. Trump treated black employees at his casinos differently from whites, according to multiple sources. A former hotel executive said Trump criticized a black accountant: 'Black guys counting my money! I hate it. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks.'
3. In 1989, Trump took out ads in New York newspapers urging the death penalty for five black and Latino teenagers accused of raping a white woman in Central Park; he argued they were guilty as late as October 2016, more than 10 years after DNA evidence had exonerated them.
4. In 1989, on NBC, Trump said: 'I think sometimes a black may think they don’t have an advantage or this and that. I’ve said on one occasion, even about myself, if I were starting off today, I would love to be a well-educated black, because I really believe they do have an actual advantage.'
5. He began his 2016 presidential campaign with a speech disparaging Mexican immigrants as criminals and 'rapists.'
6. He uses the gang MS-13 to disparage all immigrants. Among many other statements, he has suggested that Obama’s protection of the Dreamers — otherwise law-abiding immigrants who were brought to the United States illegally as children — contributed to the spread of MS-13.
7. In December 2015, Trump called for a 'a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States,' including refusing to readmit Muslim-American citizens who were outside of the country at the time.
8. Trump said a federal judge hearing a case about Trump University was biased because of the judge’s Mexican heritage.
9. In June 2017, Trump said 15,000 recent immigrants from Haiti 'all have AIDS' and that 40,000 Nigerians, once seeing the United States, would never 'go back to their huts' in Africa.
10. He spent years suggesting that the nation’s first black president was born not in the United States but in Kenya, a lie that Trump still has not acknowledged as such.
Yes, Donald Trump is a bonafide racist. I'm really curious why you're not able to see this? (Hmm... I wonder what that means?) ;-)
"The mid 20th century racial classification by American anthropologist Carleton S. Coon, divided humanity into five races..." ~~ Majormajor (aka, Chuck)
I'm sorry, Chuck, but you're not able to make up definitions to what words mean. (Hmm, I see a conservative pattern here.) Sociologists, paleontologists and others that research this sort of thing haven't come to a complete consensus of the meaning of "race", although it's a foregone conclusion it doesn't just strictly relate to physical traits and shared DNA sequences. There are many other factors, such as social qualities, that come into play.
Here, educate yourself. Read something besides comic books and communist literature for a change.
Nice try, Chuck, but you already knew this.
MM,
When are you going to open your eyes?
I've already condemned racism from anyone.
I have't even seen you disavow NOI yet.
And why haven't you agreed Hitler was a racist? Instead you openly embraced a definition of racism that wouldn't include persecution of Jews by the "Master Race".
Nicht wahr, mein Herr?
I salute your authority on the matter.
I've already condemned racism from anyone.
So have I but that hasn't stopped your from calling me a supported of racism. Maybe in your pretend world that's not enough, so I'll ask again
when are you going to denounce the Nation of Islam, the nations largest racist organization? Headquartered in Obama's home town Chicago, founded in yours, Detroit.
“I've already condemned racism from anyone.”
So have I.
Have you? You haven’t even admitted Hitler was a racist. Tell us what you REALLY condemn.
Was he white racist, or not? Are you afraid to address this because Hitler's biggest American fans love Trump as much as you do?
Oh Little Buddy, I am against all forms of racism, white and black, just like you, just like Mr. Paine..Have I ever said I was for Hitler? Or are you just trying to put words in my mouth again.
Waiting for you to condemn the Nation of Islam, which has more members that the KKK, Nazi Party and all White Supremacist groups combined. Are you afraid to condemn them this because Obama is a big fan of the NOI?
Majormajor is trying to deceive us again.
From SPLC:
During the 2008 presidential election, Farrakhan initially supported Barack Obama saying, “This young man is the hope of the entire world that America will change and be made better.” Obama responded by disavowing Farrakhan and the rhetoric of NOI against members of the Jewish community.
In a 2016 speech Farrakhan condemned Obama for not earning his legacy with black folks, saying “We put you there… you fought for the rights of gay people, you fought for the rights of this people and that people, you fight for Israel, your people are suffering and dying in the streets. That’s where your legacy is!”
Later that same year during the presidential race, Farrakhan expressed his liking for Donald Trump.
Smearing the Black president with lies again... Hmmm. What kind of person would do such a thing?
Now about those "more members" numbers....
Crickets.
"Nation of Islam, which has more members that the KKK, Nazi Party and all White Supremacist groups combined."
NOI 50000.
Google it and you will see it's true, example KKK membership 3000-6000 (as of 2016, the Anti-Defamation League puts total Klan membership nationwide at around 3,000, while the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) puts it at 6,000 members total.
The NSM is an American Neo-Nazi, white supremacist political party based in Detroit. They have about 400 US members.
"Obama is a big fan of the NOI?"
Picture says a thousand words, and you have seen it.
Louis Farrakhan backs Obama for president at Nation of Islam convention in Chicago..Chicago Tribune
SPLC
2017 black nationalist hate groups
Ambassadors of Christ
Army of Israel
Black Riders Liberation Party
Great Millstone
House of David Camp
House of Israel
Israel United In Christ
Israelite Church of God in Jesus Christ
Israelite School of Universal Practical Knowledge
Lions of Israel
Nation of Islam
Nation OF KINGS AND PRIESTS
New Black Panther Party
New Black Panther Party for Self Defense
oneBody in Yahawashi
Revolutionary Black Panther Party
Sicarii 1715
United Kingdom of Israel Congregation
United Nuwaubian Nation of Moors/All Eyes on Egipt
War on The Horizon
The largest of these hate groups is the NOI and is active today.
Last I heard Hitler is dead since 1945 so maybe your can explain your fear of him?
"Last I heard Hitler is dead since 1945 so maybe your can explain your fear of him?" Majormajor (aka, Chuck)
Typical deflective maneuver on your part, Chuck, not answering what Dave actually asked you. Still playing the same games, I see.
"I am against all forms of racism, white and black, just like you, just like Mr. Paine." ~~ Majormajor (aka, Chuck)
Since you've totally skewed and redefined the normally accepted definition of "racism" (which also excludes Adolf Hitler from being racist), I'm not convinced.
What are your feelings about other people of color?
"Have I ever said I was for Hitler?"
I don't specifically recall, but you've concluded (by your own narrow interpretation of the word), that Hitler was not a racist.
Just for clarification, do you believe Adolf Hitler was a racist?
JG,
MM's pattern is established.
Agreement that “very fine people” marched with Nazis, reluctance to admit Hitler was a racist, hatred for Muslims, hatred for liberals, hatred for a free press, obsession with NOI, scorn for democracy, hate for the Black president, says Obama is a fan of NOI, unquestioning loyal authoritarian follower of the racist birther MAGAt, etc.
Not only does Majormajor fit the profile, he's made it quite clear, in fact. The evidence is overwhelming. There is no doubt in my mind.
"Not only does Majormajor fit the profile, he's made it quite clear, in fact. The evidence is overwhelming. There is no doubt in my mind. ~~ Dave Dubya
I'd agree, the evidence would be interpreted as conclusive by many juries.
I'm going to re-post my previous comment to your blog, so your own visitors can come to their own conclusion (as if they haven't already).
The Drivel Duo is back at it again..putting words into my mouth, then demanding answers for hat they claim I've said.
How very leftist authoritarian of them.
In other news, the Drivel Duo agree with the largest racist organization in the USA, the Nation of Islam... They refuse to condemn it by name or even except that blacks can be racist. So using their standards, the must agree with the NOI
In other news, the Drivel Duo agree with the largest racist organization in the USA, the Nation of Islam...
A White Nationalist who implies the Black president is a racist but can’t say Hitler was a racist is putting words in our mouths again.
He must be some kind of pathetic little whiny VICTIM, amirite?
Time to attack Blacks again.
Chuck, even though I read a lot of political articles I do not follow Trump that closely. His whole admin is like a soap opera and I do not care to know about every twist and turn. I do know he is trying to turn the US into Pottersville, like in the Jimmy Stuart movie.
This admin is hands down the most destructive one in history and if Trump were to serve two terms the US will be FUBAR.
Pretty amazing how if you don't do what Dave wants he breaks out the race card and plays it, IE a calling me a "White Nationalist"
I have agreed with him about Hitler.
I have pointed out how Obama has not disavowed the largest racist organization in the USA, the Nation of Islam, and has his picture taken with its leader. For the record neither jG or Dave (Drivel Duo) have either. Now if I or President Trump had our picture taken with the Grand Dragon of the KKK, would Dave call us racist? Of course he would. Is this another example of the lefts double standard? Yes it is.
I have asked, how racism has effected him, he says it hasn't.
I have documented the NOI endorsement of Obama in 2008.
I have provided Dave with the dictionary definition of racism.
I have given him the SPLC list of black racist nationalist organizations in the USA.
I have given him the membership numbers for both the KKK (6000) and NOI (50,000).
But it is not enough. I haven't said exactly the way he wants, using the exact words he wants, what he wants from me in his authority driven black nationalist leftist way.
And what does Dave do?
Dave says I am a "pathetic little whiny VICTIM"..based on what?
He calls me a White Nationalist. I guess he thinks I am a racist. Or maybe a White Supremacist. Or even Satan incarnate, who knows? His hate for anything, anyone not as far left as he is palatable, just read his posts.
He is fast becoming a unhinged social justice warrior...it is sad.
Woodenman
"I do know he is trying to turn the US into Pottersville,"
How?
"This admin is hands down the most destructive one in history and if Trump were to serve two terms the US will be FUBAR."
Explain how?
I respectfully ask you to remember Jimmy Carter
Remember what about Jimmy Carter?
Chuck, do you ever think it is odd that you always have to ask me what is going on in politics? That you do not know what Trump and all the Republicans are doing even though you are involved every day with at least two political forums?
That is because Conservative news sources are garbage, they do not cover all the topics or events that would make you disappointed with your party. They are biased and partisan far more than Liberal sources.
I will bring up a few topics in another post.
Woodenman, I want you to explain what you mean and then support same..surely if the USA is going to be destroyed by President Trump as you say, you have reasons to support those thoughts. Share them with me. Let's talk about them, examine the evidence see if there are other possible conclusions that can be drawn..
I mean, look at your fear of nuke war with NK, has that threat be reduced? Do you still believe President Trump will lead us to war?
Let's talk and ignore the Drivel Duo while doing so.
"I have agreed with [Dave] about Hitler." ~~ Majormajor (aka, Chuck)
I'm sorry, Chuck, no you haven't. You have yet to claim that Adolf Hitler was a racist.
"I have pointed out how Obama has not disavowed the largest racist organization in the USA, the Nation of Islam..." ~~ Majormajor (aka, Chuck)
Yes, Chuck, you have mentioned this countless times, yet Dave has countered (also, many times), with evidence that Obama distanced himself from Louis Farrakhan and would not accept his support and endorsement when he was running for president.
Tell me, how many times, and how many ways, does this need to be pointed out to you?
"...and has his picture taken with its leader. For the record neither jG or Dave (Drivel Duo) have either." ~~ Majormajor (aka, Chuck)
Trump has had his picture taken with Putin. I suppose this, alone, proves he's guilty of colluding with Putin in turning the 2016 presidential election?
I'm curious, Chuck, of your age and how you got through life this far with thought proccesses as you exhibit on this blog and others.
And for the record, I needn't disavow Louis Farrakhan since I never voted for him for president and nor have I supported him or do I support him now.
Unlike you, with Donald Trump -- a known racist. Chuck, you know what this says about you, right?
"Tell me, how many times, and how many ways, does this need to be pointed out to you?"
Clearly the objective here isn't to have a conversation, discussion, or even argument. It's a demonstration of the tactics that T.Paine railed against in the initial blog post. Keep talking, keep changing the subject, keep ignoring the points of the other side all in an effort to protect this Safe Space.
"I needn't disavow Louis Farrakhan since I never voted for him for president and nor have I supported him or do I support him now."
And I never voted for Hitler nor have I supported him or do I support him now.
I have left comment moderation off to see what path this discourse would take. Sadly, I suspected all along where it would end, and I was correct.
It illustrates the point I was making in the article quite well... sadly once again.
Mr. Paine,
It appears someone needed to use this thread to obsess over the Nation of Islam. He did the same hijack and deflection at my blog. I allowed it for a while, but the White Nationalism became too obnoxious. I haven't banned him, but drew a line.
Have you noticed how Blacks in a Waffle House had their free speech silenced by a deranged Trump lover?
Yes, mental illness was a factor. But so was racist hate.
The body count grows...
Mr. Dubya, racism is foolish and destructive to our nation's liberties and the concept of e pluribus unum. It matters not if that racism is from the Nation of Islam or the KKK. It is all abhorrent to decent people. I honestly believe that you, J.G., and Majormajor all denounce such racism and groups that support it, regardless of the games played to dance around the issue or ignore direct questions.
From such overt racism, it is easy to morph into more subtle forms of racism, or create false flags of racism for political points. It is easy to see the ridiculousness of this by claiming black Americans had their free speech silenced by a Trump lover. Trump had nothing to do with this act.
That was a simple act of murder by a mentally deranged man. I don't know if he was racist or not, but it makes another good talking point to try and beat Trump supporters with, doesn't it?
You needn't bother answering. I don't care to waste my time today debating your foolishness.
Mr. Paine,
Thanks for calling out my "foolishness". No explanation required. I get it. it's easier to dismiss dissent than debate it.
Nice job dancing around my points. And you still don’t know if Trump is a racist or not? But you have no problem when Majormajor insinuates Obama is a racist?
If that is what you see as "not foolish" and "not racist" then I accept your accusation, with pride and integrity intact.
I understand you are uncomfortable having to deflect criticism from your arguments and Majormajor’s outrageous statements.
You are entitled to silence us here if that makes you feel better, or helps you hold to your beliefs more firmly.
“...Black Americans had their free speech silenced by a Trump lover.” This is a fact, sir. Trump has everything to do with inciting hate. There’s a reason racists like David Duke and Richard Spencer love Trump. Dance around that fact as long as you like too.
Majormajor made the outright claim that Obama is a “fan” of the racist NOI. Maybe you agree Obama is the REAL racist, rather than the godamn Birther Big MAGAt.
Once again, when the issue is racism, one side attacks the darker people more than the White Nationalists.
Majormajor dances around the fact Jews were also “considered by the Nazis to be an inferior race and were subject to the Nuremberg Laws”.
Hitler defined his white Master Race as superior to all other races and ethnic groups. Who else chooses their own definitions? Gee, I wonder.
Majormajor ignores the ADL’s definition of racism so he can hate Mexicans, Muslims, and Arabs and not be “racist”. He thinks we’re too stupid to see through this.
His opinion that very fine people marched with Nazis puts the lie to his being “sickened” by them. That is abetting them.
In Majormajor’s world view, Blacks are racists for hating Jews, but Hitler wasn’t. How convenient.
Everything Majormajor has obsessively said about Blacks resonates with the Klan and Nazis.
Now more Blacks are DEAD because of a ANOTHER deranged MAGAt!
But poor wittow angry white conservatives are the REAL victims.
Better blame the “leftists” too, amirite? The silence of the growing number of dead tells another story,
So much for e pluribus unum. But don’t blame me for disagreeing with manufactured definitions and false accusations. I didn’t drive the wedge. That is the tactic of the far Right.
"Hitler was a racist because of his beliefs regarding the black race..." ~~ Majormajor (aka, Chuck)
and...
"I do not support nor a line myself with any of the beliefs of Hitler, and the Nazi Party, currently or those found in Germany during the 1930-40's. I am sicken by the racism and anti Semitic beliefs of the Nation of Islam, the KKK, any racist Black Nationalist group and any White Supremacist group and opposed to all. ~~ Majormajor (aka, Chuck)
Good, we're making progress, although you're still insistent upon defining racism in its most narrowest terms. So, okay, let's do that for the moment.
So it's also fair to say Donald Trump is also a racist based upon, at a minimum, the Nixon administration's sueing of Donald Trump and his father for discrimination against blacks, correct?
Mr. Dubya, you are either the consummate troll or a liar. Majormajor just did a very thorough job of denouncing all of the various racisms that your Alinsky tactics prompted him to make in his own defense. And yet, it still isn't enough for you. Unless he completely capitulates and engages in a shared unbridled hate for Trump, it won't ever be enough for you, will it, sir?
I have told you multiple times about my views on President Trump and some of his past issues, and yet that still isn't good enough for you either. Because of that you are either foolish, trolling for effect, lying, or all of the above. If that leaves your "pride and integrity intact" then I guess that does meet the leftist definition of the means justifying the end.
I am not going to silence you here anymore than I am anyone else. This blog is going away shortly. I am tired of the hate, lies, and mis-characterizations of good people by trolls.
This is a good sample of that crap, "Majormajor ignores the ADL’s definition of racism so he can hate Mexicans, Muslims, and Arabs and not be 'racist'."
I guess you missed his denunciation AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN of such hate and racism.
And like most other things you are wrong again. The militant left is just as guilty, and indeed is more so of driving wedges between people. Most conservatives see only Americans. It is the Stalinist left that must divide Americans into sub-groups based on skin color or faith or creed or gender or what-have-you. It is in creating these individual interest groups that they are able to manipulate them for political gain.
I weep for my grandchildren and the hateful, divided, and poorer world that the Left is creating.
Mr. Paine.
Why should anyone take MM's words as honest? Context tells us way more truth.
This is your "truth" that you two share with Trump: "Very fine people" marched with NAZIs. 'Nuff said.
Why am I attacked for questioning MM's accusation that Obama was a fan of racists? Why am I "foolish" for noting MM's declaration that Hitler wasn't a racist for his hate for Jews? This openly counters the ADL. If a "leftist" were to challenge the Israeli far Right, we'd be called anti-Semites. When MM denies the ADL definition, he's what?
Apparently not as "foolish" and "anti-semitic" as I am.
No racism at all in calling the Black Guy a racist? No racism at all in calling the Black President a foreign usurper?
Yeah, no racism at all, according to those making and abetting those accusations. Just a coincidence, I suppose
And they are all Angry White Conservatives. We never hear the end of it, yet they are whining about being "silenced".
Most conservatives see only Americans.
Yes, just like Trump.
It is the Stalinist left that must divide Americans into sub-groups based on skin color or faith or creed or gender or what-have-you.
And thank you again for projecting YOUR Stalinist tactic at me. Did you get that from Alinsky? I never heard of the guy until the Right went bonkers over him.
"Mr. Dubya, you are either the consummate troll or a liar."
I vote for both.
"I weep for my grandchildren and the hateful, divided, and poorer world that the Left is creating."
The irony of this statement is palpable. I hope you're not weeping too terribly hard.
Mr. Paine,
To close this site down is to allow the left to silence another voice. Please don't do it.
Not that it matters. First a fact. Race and Racism are words invented and defined by white men.
This entry explains further.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism
Hitler's declaration of his belief in a “master race” was an indication of the inherent racism of the Nazi movement.
Dictionaries are often treated as the final arbiter in arguments over a word’s meaning, but they are not always well suited for settling disputes. The lexicographer’s role is to explain how words are (or have been) actually used, not how some may feel that they should be used, and they say nothing about the intrinsic nature of the thing named by a word, much less the significance it may have for individuals. When discussing concepts like racism, therefore, it is prudent to recognize that quoting from a dictionary is unlikely to either mollify or persuade the person with whom one is arguing.
From ADL
https://www.adl.org/racism
Racism has existed throughout human history. It may be defined as the hatred of one person by another — or the belief that another person is less than human — because of skin color, language, customs, place of birth or any factor that supposedly reveals the basic nature of that person. It has influenced wars, slavery, the formation of nations, and legal codes.
“Race” From The American Heritage Science Dictionary:
Any of several extensive human populations associated with broadlydefined regions of the world and distinguished from one another onthe basis of inheritable physical characteristics, traditionallyconceived as including such traits as pigmentation, hair texture, andfacial features. Because the number of genes responsible for suchphysical variations is tiny in comparison to the size of the humangenome and because genetic variation among members of atraditionally recognized racial group is generally as great as betweentwo such groups, most scientists now consider race to be primarily a social rather than a scientific concept.
It comes down to bigotry. Bigotry against color, creed, nationality, tribe, etc
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/bigotry
...The fact of having and expressing strong unreasonable beliefs and disliking other people who have different race, religion, beliefs or a different way of life:”
Looks like Dave is playing victim and whimpering game again.
"So let me get this straight. Nation of Islam are not racists for hating ‘white” Jews, just other white people?"
Are you stupid or just acting?
"Everything Majormajor has obsessively said about Blacks resonates with the Klan and Nazis."
Like what have I said? Pretend world again?
WOOOW, big believe in scientific proof that man is causing climate change now leaving the scientific definition of race to a "social justice warrior" definition.. Next thing you known he will tell us is gender is not determined at birth...stay tuned.
"Turn your blog over to MM"...let's start at the top of this thread to see the first 44 posts...
Mr. Paine 15 (it is his blog you know)
Dave 12
jG 6
MM 6
other
liberals 5
21 conservative posts
23 none conservative posts
Who exactly is trying to take over your blog Mr. Paine?
Mr. Paine, please delete Hot Head Paul's comments, he irritates me.
Mr. Paine,
I agree with Woodenman about Paul. But don't remove his post, it should be left for all to view as the new standard of the left.
Plus there's the freedom of speech.
"So it's also fair to say Donald Trump is also a racist based upon, at a minimum, the Nixon administration's sueing of Donald Trump and his father for discrimination against blacks, correct?" ~~ Jefferson's Guardian, in question posed to Majormajor (aka, Chuck)
Chuck, I'm still awaiting your response.
Has hell froze over jG? I thought I told you I no longer play your little games...
In response to the other half of the Drivel Duo, here's some history of the NOI and the "Black Guy".
Chuck Ross
11/10/2016
Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan recently revealed for the first time the details of a private meeting he had at his Chicago home with Barack Obama just before the then-U.S. Senator announced his run for president.
Speaking to at the Nation of Islam’s mosque in Chicago late last month, the fiery minister said that he gave Obama financial support to help him win pubic office. He also acknowledged that he has withheld details of his relationship with Obama for fear of political consequences for the former community organizer.
“We supported him when he was a community organizer,” said Farrakhan. “We backed him with money and with the help of the [Fruit of Islam] to get him elected.”
Newsmax
11/3/2008
"Farrakhan endorsed Obama in a videotaped speech to his followers at Mosque Miryam in Chicago in February. “You are the instruments that God is gonna use to bring about universal change, and that is why Barack has captured the youth,” Farrakhan said."
Once the news media and the Clinton campaign got hold of those comments from Farrakhan, demands mounted from all sides that Obama “renounce” Farrakhan.
But as he has done repeatedly throughout this campaign, Obama was careful to parse his words.
“You know, I have been very clear in my denunciation of Minister Farrakhan's anti-Semitic comments,” he said during one appearance on “Meet the Press.” “I think that they are unacceptable and reprehensible.”
Obama hastened to point out that Farrakhan had been praising him as “an African-American who seems to be bringing the country together. I obviously can't censor him, but it is not support that I sought. And we’re not doing anything, I assure you, formally or informally with Minister Farrakhan.”
But Obama, once again, was less than candid.
In 1995, according to a profile of Obama that appeared in the Chicago Reader newspaper, Obama “took time off from attending campaign coffees to attend October’s Million Man March in Washington, D.C.”
Interesting, we have proof and a photo that proves Obama's close relationship with the leader of the largest racist organization in the USA, the Nation of Islam...but he wasn't a racist?
"To close this site down is to allow the left to silence another voice. Please don't do it." ~ Majormajor
Majormajor, I understand your point, and I will carefully consider all aspects before finally deciding. I appreciate your support, my friend.
I do grow very weary over the scarcity of decent people discussing issues in good faith regardless of where they fall on the political spectrum lately. I particularly am vexed over the hate and lies spewed by some of our leftist brothers and sisters in particular.
I have tried to be patient and have even turned the other cheek many a times in the past. That said, I am not sure what to do when struck on the other cheek too. Our Lord is not as clear on that point. Am I supposed to forgive such acts 7 x 70 times, or should I smite the ass with the jaw bone of an ass? ;)
Woodenman, I am sorely tempted to delete Paul's hate-filled lying comment as you requested; however, it serves a purpose too. It ironically helps to make the very point my article was citing.
People like Paul only want what they believe is best for our society, so I cannot fault him for his intentions, even though I think they are wrong and misguided. Instead of arguing his points though, he acts like the nastiest of trolls. He makes horrific accusations which I have ignored on Tom's blog, but then he follows up with his lying nonsense here in my own backyard.
I have never called those having an abortion as murderers. Indeed, I have a dear friend that had one right out of high school and has regretted it ever since. She is now a strong advocate for the pro-life movement and for the poor women that felt that was the only choice they had with an unwanted pregnancy. Further, Paul has accused me of wanting a theocracy based on my own religious views. This also is a flat out lie without substance. If Paul had only read some of my past articles over the years or perhaps even bothered to ask me, he would have found that I absolutely believe in the separation of church and state as Thomas Jefferson characterized it in his letter to the Danburry Baptists, and which the left had subsequently bastardized into meaning that there should never be the mention of God in a public setting. Of course that is not what the flawed and human, but brilliant and essential author of our Declaration of Independence ever meant.
I do not want any semblance of a theocracy whatsoever; however, I do want my liberties protected, as stipulated in the Bill of Rights, that I can worship and believe as I choose. Further, I can live my life according to the dictates of my faith, and encourage my congressman etc. to act accordingly when legislation that is contrary to my faith is suggested. It is Paul's right to lobby his congressman to pass that legislation if he agrees with it. That is how our representative republic is meant to work, instead of threats, lies, and intimidation tactics by folks that might not be quite so brave if they were standing right in front of me.
None of that matters though to Paul and others that are so immersed in their own hate for anyone that doesn't share their own brand of leftist politics. He and his ilk have become the American equivalent of a leftist ISIS. If a liberal of good conscience isn't extreme enough and doesn't hate President Trump and conservatives enough, then they also become targets. I have seen him attack another liberal in just such a case. If I cared enough I would go search out the text of the encounter, because I imagine he will deny it. The truth is that he and I both know it is true, however. To him conservatives are evil, and liberals who are not left enough are traitors to the cause. It is these sad folk that I have little use for when it comes to answering their questions or disputing their lies. That alone would end up being a full-time job.
Those were YOUR words Toilet Paper, you said them. The hypocrisy is yours. The hate is yours. You called the legal actions of law abiding citizens murder and those who were only practicing their legal rights as murderers. Your hate filled comments are still posted in your writings, so call me a liar all you want, but proof of your hate is on my side by your own words.
"Has hell froze over jG? I thought I told you I no longer play your little games..." ~~ Majormajor (aka, Chuck)
Who's "playing", Chuck? I'm only attempting to determine whether you believe, or not believe, Donald Trump is a racist -- especially given the evidence that's available. No games with me, Chuck, I'm just hoping to see you stop deflecting and distracting -- and projecting.
Here, check it out...
"I’ve waded through 1,021 pages of documents from that legal battle, and they are devastating. Donald Trump was then president of the family real estate firm, and the government amassed overwhelming evidence that the company had a policy of discriminating against blacks, including those serving in the military.
To prove the discrimination, blacks were repeatedly dispatched as testers to Trump apartment buildings to inquire about vacancies, and white testers were sent soon after. Repeatedly, the black person was told that nothing was available, while the white tester was shown apartments for immediate rental.
A former building superintendent working for the Trumps explained that he was told to code any application by a black person with the letter C, for colored, apparently so the office would know to reject it. A Trump rental agent said the Trumps wanted to rent only to 'Jews and executives,' and discouraged renting to blacks."
and...
"In 1991, a book by John O’Donnell, who had been president of the Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino in Atlantic City, quoted Trump as criticizing a black accountant and saying: 'Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control.' O’Donnell wrote that for months afterward, Trump pressed him to fire the black accountant, until the man resigned of his own accord.
Trump eventually denied making those comments. But in 1997 in a Playboy interview, he conceded 'the stuff O’Donnell wrote about me is probably true.'"
So, what about it, Chuck? Is Trump a racist or not? Even he concedes he's a racist, albeit indirectly. Why can't you?
Oh, about hell freezing over, I don't believe in hell -- well, except for the one created on earth by conservatives, that is.
"I have tried to be patient and have even turned the other cheek many a times in the past. That said, I am not sure what to do when struck on the other cheek too." ~~ T. Paine
and...
"Am I supposed to forgive such acts 7 x 70 times, or should I smite the ass with the jaw bone of an ass? ;)" ~~ T. Paine
Perhaps, Mr. Paine, you'd benefit by a little known verse: "Thou shalt turn both cheeks toward one's sworn enemy and receive thus swift kick in thou ass."
Like I said, it's little known. ;-) But, well deserving...
You left out the part about Trump being a Democrat when those things happened. Birds of a feather.
Perhaps you should check your out dated blog, who knows maybe someone has posted there. LOL
We can examine this flurry of exchanges and get a view of two perspectives.
If Mr. Paine and the radical Right assume authority to define me, I can do the same in return. If Mr. Paine accuses me of “Stalinist” tactics, I can more accurately accuse him of the same.
If MM can accuse the Black President of being a racist fan of NOI, I can call him a racist fan of the Big MAGAt cult.
And finally, if both Mr. Paine and MM side with Trump about “very fine people” marching with Nazis, there’s no reason we can’t discount them as racist sympathizers at the very least. They chose their side, then attack anyone for pointing to that fact.
So here we are, alleged “Nazi sympathizers” and “Stalinists”. BTW, historically only one group invaded the other AND declared war on the U.S.
Now that the accusations have reached as far as they can go, what are the facts?
Given that the radical Right has been actively working to disenfranchise Black voters, and judged by courts to have been gerrymandering them out of their right of representation, I’d say that can be fairly seen as “kind of racist”. It can also be seen as anti-democracy, and anti-equality. This would put them closer to Stalinist and Nazi ideology than liberals, or the dreaded and demonized evil “leftists” of their propaganda.
The Party of Trump is engaged in open warfare on our free press and First Amendment by adopting the Nazi tactic of attacking journalism when it factually reports their agenda and consequences. They want only the voices of FOX(R) and far Right propagandists to be heard. (Sorry two provocateurs in MAGA hats booted from a coffee shop for not removing their hats doesn’t violate the First Amendment.)
The German Nazis used the term “Lügenpresse”, or lying press, in their campaign to destroy journalism. Now American fascists cry “liberal media” and “fake news” when the truth threatens their agenda.
These are the devoted authoritarian fanatics of the fascist Right that have risen to frightening levels of influence in their war on our Constitution’s regulation of commerce and provision for the general welfare. They actively suppress voter rights, democracy, a free press, science, education, unions and minorities. And they will insist I am the liar for reporting these facts. It is their way.
What needs to be emphasized is their goal is nothing less than a one-party dictatorship, where banking and corporate elites are further coddled and politically empowered, while minorities and the poor are given additional hurdles in voting rights and representation.
Given that the body count of victims of hate crimes by Rightists and white racists rises ever higher in numbers, we can also determine which side has the most hate by their bloody trail.
Mr. Paine and MM can accuse the Black president of racism. They can define, deny, decry, and denounce racism all day long, but the actions of their far Right party tell the true story of the Rightist agenda.
These words will be seen as evil lies, of course. They confuse truth telling as hate. And THEY lecture us about “politically correct snowflakes”? Anyone outside a cult is the enemy and will be defined and slimed as such.
The Angry White Conservatives of the far Right have NEVER been on the egalitarian and humanitarian side of history. Someone should write a post on this. ;-)
"I vote for the smiting the ass with the jaw bone of an ass, but then I'm a Protestant ;) " ~ Majormajor
ROFL! You have been killing me with laughter lately, sir.
J.G., I can only assume you have a "new age" translation of the bible as I am indeed not familiar with that particular verse which you cited. ;)
And then we have Paul who continues his hateful lies and cannot point to where I said any such thing ever because it NEVER happened. I do recall having a conversation with him trying to explain the difference between legality and evil/immorality. Evidently it is a concept that is lost on him as he still keeps citing the legality of abortion.
As a recap, the Dred Scott decision denying freedom to former slaves was "legal" but morally wrong and evil. Plessy v. Ferguson, which "legalized" segregation was the legal law of the land, and yet still immoral. The Jim Crow laws that the Democrats in the South passed were "legal" but were immoral, wrong, and evil. The internment of Americans of Japanese ancestry by FDR was legal but was wrong and immoral. Adolf Hitler's requirements that Jews be reported by German citizens for their ultimate demise was legal by German law at the time, but was absolute evil. And I would similarly stipulate the "legality" of Roe v. Wade that permits the aborting of an innocent unborn child. Yes it is legal. It is also wrong, immoral, and an act of evil to knowingly and intentionally take the life of an innocent person. It is even more egregious in my estimation if that person is a child. Only those trying to assuage their consciences from this grave sin would deny the humanity of an unborn child until he or she passes through several inches of the birth canal and thus are magically granted their person-hood.
Those that hide their acts of immorality or vileness or outright evil behind the veil of legality have done horrific acts of inhumanity throughout human history. It is frightening to think that there are still many people that have not learned that lesson yet today.
As for Mr. Dubya's last comment... yawn.
Truth seems to be a very distant friend and words are twisted and fabricated to create the desired effect of demagoguery, demonization, and marginalization of one's political enemies in order to reduce the sting of their objectively stated truth.
NYU Journalism professor Jay Rosen noted:
Steve Bannon put to the author Michael Lewis in February of this year. "The Democrats don't matter,” Bannon said. “The real opposition is the media. And the way to deal with them is to flood the zone with shit."
And is it ever shoveled here!
More "twisted truth"? More Lugenpresse? Nicht Wahr?
The Washingtong Post reports:
Trump has put up many people for judgeships who would have been very unlikely to get nominated if they went through a more rigorous vetting process. There was the guy in Alabama who had defended the Ku Klux Klan, the guy in Texas who said transgender children are proof that “Satan’s plan is working,” and the nominee for the U.S. Court of Federal Claims who called Justice Anthony Kennedy “a judicial prostitute.”
Better blame the evil press, amirite?
"Those that hide their acts of immorality or vileness or outright evil behind the veil of legality have done horrific acts of inhumanity throughout human history. It is frightening to think that there are still many people that have not learned that lesson yet today." ~~ T. Paine
Finally, Mr Paine, you're seeing the immorality and dangerous demogagagary of Donald Trump and the complicit Republican Party that serves him.
"J.G., I can only assume you have a 'new age' translation of the bible as I am indeed not familiar with that particular verse which you cited. ;)" ~~ T. Paine
Yes, it's a very obscure passage from one of the writings the "old age" Roman Catholic Church deemed not worthy of being included in Biblos. It was called the Book of Lieyourassoff, if memory serves me correctly. ;-)
"And finally, if both Mr. Paine and MM side with Trump about 'very fine people' marching with Nazis, there’s no reason we can’t discount them as racist sympathizers at the very least. They chose their side, then attack anyone for pointing to that fact." ~~ Dave Dubya
The very fact that Chuck does not denounce the proven racism of Donald Trump, tells me he's at the very least a racist sympathizer.
I can't see how this is reconciled with Christian beliefs and "the good book". I'm stumped. Maybe Chuck will explain.
Mr. Paine.
As JG does not believe in hell except that which has been created on earth by Conservatives, I wonder if he can share with us examples of leftist created heaven on earth?
Venezuela
Cuba
North Korea
Isn't it odd that the Drivel Duo seem to feed off of each other? Kind of like they can't stand alone but need a tag team arrangement. Lack of rugged individualism I suspect.
"I'm only attempting to determine whether you believe, or not believe, Donald Trump is a racist...I'm just hoping to see you stop deflecting and distracting..." ~~ Jefferson's Guardian
and...
"You left out the part about Trump being a Democrat when those things happened." ~~ Majormajor (aka, Chuck)
Despite your botched attempt to both deflect and project, I assume by your statement that you agree -- whether Democrat or Republican -- Donald Trump is a racist?
Just so we're clear, please confirm.
jG,
Drivel.
"Despite your botched attempt to both deflect and project, I assume by your statement that you agree...Donald Trump is a racist? ~~ Jefferson's Guardian
"Drivel" ~~ Majormajor (aka, Chuck)
Unless you object, I'll interpret that as a "yes".
As Dave Dubya pointed out, since you both voted for and continue to support a known and admitted racist, at the very least this makes you a racist sympathizer. That's at the very least, remember, with potential bona fide racist a very real and distinct possibility.
LOL, More drivel.
"Typical leftist, just like our very own Drivel Duo. Cries racism, (she's a white woman), is a great example of how the left is twisting the language to fit their role of victim.
Fresno State University professor Randa Jarrar, in an interview that was published on Tuesday, blamed racism for the backlash she received after attacking former first lady Barbara Bush on Twitter the day she died.
Jarrar, who is of Egyptian, Greek and Palestinian heritage, told The Cut that she believes her own race was certainly a factor in the response to her comments.
“Women of color routinely have their tone policed, their justified anger painted as hatred, and their criticism of injustice framed as racism toward white people,” Jarrar told The Cut.
After calling Bush a “racist” and the mother of a “war criminal,” Jarrar received criticism from a number who felt that she had crossed a line and should be fired. She argued back that she was tenured and therefore could not be fired."
Gabriella Paiella
And THIS is what infuriates the Right:
“She was tenured and therefore could not be fired.”
GRRR. That evil woman has a right to free speech!!
She must be silenced now!!! AND give Nazis equal time!
No dave, what infuriates any normal person, left or right, are her hate filled words and your acceptance of them.
Still humming The International
Arise ye workers from your slumbers
Arise ye prisoners of want
For reason in revolt now thunders
And at last ends the age of cant.
Away with all your superstitions
Servile masses arise, arise
We’ll change henceforth the old tradition
And spurn the dust to win the prize.
Refrain:
So comrades, come rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale unites the human race.
It's amusing to me that I first learn about leftists, leftist tactics, and now a socialist anthem from contributers of this blog.
RE "socialist anthem".
You have never read Hemingway's For Whom the Bell Tolls?
Chuck, are you insinuating you have?...and not the comic book version? ;-)
"It's amusing to me that I first learn about leftists, leftist tactics, and now a socialist anthem from contributers of this blog." ~ TB3
TB3, I expect you weren't aware of these things because you are more of a liberal. We on the right know about these leftist commies and their tactics because we have to face the brunt of their nonsense and drivel on a daily basis. :)
MM,
No. I'm not as well read as I'd like to be. I do not believe I've had the pleasure of For Whom the Bell Tolls. Though after reading the summary, I'm going to move it up on the list. I've got it on my Kindle but the Federalist Papers and, ironically, Paine's Common Sense are ahead of it in the queue. :)
TP,
I'd prefer not to label myself. Labels artificially separate people and encourages division. I understand the contentious nature of some of these exchanges can be daunting. I, myself, in comment threads in other posts of yours was accused of using "Alinsky Tactics". Making it a point to declare things like 'You're using Alinsky Tactics' or 'Stalinist Tactics' or whatever just seems so irrelevent and detrimental to discussion. It comes off as 'AH HA, you're using Bonetti's Defense against me', like we're more interested in the parries and thrusts than we are with the content of what's being said.
TB3, you have some very good reading ahead of you. The Federalist Papers are fascinating to me and should once again be required reading for all high school/junior high students. Today I suspect most people think the Federalist Papers are the local Washington D.C. newspaper. And of course, I highly recommend Common Sense! :)
Next, I understand your not being fond of labels. They end up being generalizations where people don't always neatly fit within the confines of that label. I further agree that they can cause unwanted divisions. That is indeed part of the reason why I am not particularly fond of hyphenated Americans. We are all Americans regardless of our ancestry or creed etc.
Further, I think you and James have been actually very even-handed in your comments and disagreements. I haven't really noticed a descent by either of you into nastiness or the use of Alinsky tactics that I recall. Regardless, you are correct that this usually is detrimental to the core of the discussions at hand, and my responding with such labels has only exacerbated it for which I apologize. We do end up losing what is actually being said, and instead worry about making "points" against each other.
I think Majormajor's scientific definition of racism that was broader in its racial groupings than Mr. Dubya and J.G.s more idiomatic definitions is a case in point here. They all end up arguing semantics on what constitutes actual racism, while at the end of the day I believe that they all would denounce the treatment of others based on their skin color, creed, ancestry etc. We lost sight of the forest for the trees on that one, I think.
Mr. Paine,
I stand by the scientific definitions of race and racism as I have quoted here.
Creed, gender, religion, wealth does not determine a persons race. It is like gender, it is what you are at conception. What you identify with later does not change your gender or race. Surgery can alter the appearance of ones gender or race, but it cannot change the person's DNA.
If you want to start an "interesting" discussion ask the question "if discrimination is against the law, is it illegal to be a racist in America"? Or "can you discriminated against someone and not be a racist"?
MM,
Maybe we should shelve that "interesting" discussion for a later date. It's a little uncomfortable reading this thread of comments in a post just after 'To Fully Realize Martin Luther King's Dream'.
Besides; 180 comments in and all I see is just another 180 comments beyond that reiterating the same things at each other.
They end up being generalizations where people don't always neatly fit within the confines of that label. I further agree that they can cause unwanted divisions.
Take it from a "Stalinist, Alinsky-following leftist who hates the Constitution". Mr. Paine is very wise to understand who's creed is to be judged evil as Stalinism and just who deserves to be labeled.
Majormajor, I didn't mean to imply that I was in disagreement with you. Yours was a perfectly fine and scientific definition. Mr. Dubya and J.G. simply took issue with it because it didn't meet the modern-every-day definition of racism. You are correct in that one's creed, gender, religion, etc. does not have any bearing on one's race and therefore should not be a determining factor in discerning whether someone is a racist or not. I was merely saying that in addition to one's race, I don't think any of us (you, me, Dave, J.G. etc.) would find it acceptable to be belligerent to someone else based on their gender, creed, religion and so forth. (Of course if one is of the wrong political persuasion, then we have seen how some conservatives are treated by some leftists accordingly. :) )
Your questions are indeed interesting too. I would submit that it is not illegal to be a racist in America still. It is abhorrent, but not illegal. Free speech SHOULD still reign. Now if that racism takes the form of a business owner who serves the public is refusing service to someone else because of their race, then that would have legal ramifications against them and rightly so.
This is not the same thing though as a KKK member being refused service by a black print-shop owner for not wanting to print out signs for a KKK rally. Or by a Christian baker refusing to bake a wedding cake for a gay wedding. We absolutely should not be forced to do things that go against our consciences or our firmly held religious beliefs. In those cases, I think one's conscience can allow someone to discriminate against providing service to someone else and still not be a racist.
And then again there are some people who's words and actions pretty clearly land them squarely in the middle of some "labeled" groups. :)
Thank you, sir. May I have another? That's a lot easier than accepted definitions and evidence based accusations.
If I continue to accept the accusations and definitions without question, will that qualify me as an honorary white nationalist? ;-)
TB3
Ok..Later then.
Mr. Paine,
No problem, I get it.
I find it insightful that Dave defends Randa Jarrar. No one is stopping her free speech but a lot of people are rejecting what she said, just not Dave.
Mr. Paine,
Just wanted to share with you that the owner of another blog is not publishing my responses to the screaming village idiot who hangs there. I'm sure it's just an "oversight"...LOL
Speaking of free speech: Drew Cloud Is a Well-Known Expert on Student Loans. One Problem: He’s Not Real. But the WaPo and CNBC both quoted him.
Weather B.Bush was a racist is debatable but there is no debate about G. Bush being a war criminal. Torturing POW s is a war crime, starting a war of aggression is a war crime, and Obama is a war criminal also.
Trump is just itching to be a war criminal!
Majormajor needs his own blog to share his wealth of information and thoughtful original commentary.
Fake journalists are reporting the "Drew Cloud" correction. What wusses.
Who NEVER makes corrections or admissions of error and misunderstandings? That would be the REAL journalists at FOX(R) and talk radio.
That's where we have only the most flawless source of fact, honesty, integrity, and decency, from the fair and balanced network.
This is what liberalists never get through their thick snowflake skulls. The only source of truth is from the Republican Party and their media empire.
I jus figgured it out!
I mean, like, how simple can it get for the buffoons?
I mean, I'm still pretty dumb, knowuttamean? but I made up a new word for myself. LOL!
How foolish...or finally reeel smaret! I must be changin. Only conservatives get to make up definitions of me, er, or them. Ha ha. I'm pretty dumb, but I'm lernin here.
Or...wait a minute. If I trust Fox(R) and make up "stupid liberalists", im no loouger a leftist am i?
Liberalists shure are dum! An they HATE freedom, an the constituioj, an Amurika.
I got it now, bubbA!
WOo Hoo!! I'm a born-again conservative!!
Get the duct tape, Dave's head is going to explode on this news. Free speech.
Chance the Rapper appeared to comment on the backlash to Kanye West’s tweets Wednesday, expressing his view that black people don’t need to always join the Democratic Party.
“Black people don’t have to be Democrats,” Chance the Rapper, who was born Chancelor Jonathan Bennett and is from Chicago, tweeted.
During a Twitter torrent Wednesday, West told his more than 18 million Twitter followers that he doesn’t agree with everything President Trump does, but he still loves him.
"I got it now, bubbA! WOo Hoo!! I'm a born-again conservative!!" ~~ Dave Dubya
oH kNow, Dave, I thinks the tractor-pull of there unquestioning knowledge is effecting me two. I feel different. I thinks I'm bein saved... Uncle Alinsky cant efeCt us now.
Majormajor gets it!
Majormajor don’t care if Kanye West said Bush don’t like Black people. That’s just his ignorance showin’. So what? Ignorant greedy rich Blacks don’t need no stinkin’ Democrats. They know who their Sugar Daddy is. They know THEIR Plantation, amirite? That’s what counts. Greed is GOOD! That’s all any ignorant greedy rich person needs to know.
Ignorant poor people just need to learn them Liberalists are to blame for everything bad, and only Republicans will fix it all. Then they’s a gonna let that money trickle down to ‘em. Thank you, Republican Jesus! They’re gonna be RICH TOO! An that’s how Americas gonna be great!
I’m really lernin howta think like a Republican, aint I?
Watch this:
Trump said in September 2016: "The mob takes the Fifth. If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?"
Trump’s lawyer Mike Cohen takes the Fifth.
Wanna know what I learned? Trump knows the law better than lawyers. You betcha!
Amirite?
An I learned Trump supports the troops so MUCH he wants his personal brown nose MD, Dr. Gonzo Feelgood, to run the entire VA. A round of drinks and a Percocet for the house!
Genius. A real stable genius. Only the best people!
More duct tape for exploding leftist heads needed.
U.S. weekly jobless claims fall to lowest level since 1969.
U.S. trade deficit in goods drops in March for first time in seven months.
Good news for ALL Americans, regardless of race that will be ignored in Pretend Land.
"Dr. Gonzo Feelgood, to run the entire VA. A round of drinks and a Percocet for the house!"
He was the White House Dr under the Black Guy...oh that's different.
Majormajor,
He was the White House Dr under the Black Guy...oh that's different.
I’m a conservative newbie so I know you’re making a profound statement here, but I’m not exactly clear. Yes the patient was different. Good one!
And we learned the Older Fat Guy is in far better shape than the Younger Black Guy too, amirite? That’s what makes him a great doctor.
And unlike the stupid liberalist Black Guy, our Old Fat Guy knew he was perfect to "cast" as VA Director.
So yes! THAT’s different indeed!
Thank you for the deep insight. You know so much more than those dumb liberalists!
I see the Old Fat Guy called in on his State Media and ranted to his advisers for a half hour this morning. We learned The Civil War showed Republicans can still help Black people.
But can they stop the Southern White Democrat war of secession?
No problem. Lincoln was just a lawyer. The Old Fat Guy is way better than Lincoln, amirite?
You know what is interesting? Lincoln only won 40% of the popular vote but won 57% of the electoral vote.
I guess in that regard, Trump is in good company! :)
MM — “He was the White House Dr under the Black Guy...”
Why did you refer to President Obama as the “Black Guy”. I don’t believe that you have ever referred to any president as the lWhite Guy”.
TP — “Lincoln only won 40% of the popular vote but won 57% of the electoral vote.”
What you forgot to mention is that there were four presidential candidiates in that election and that Lincoln got the most votes of any of the four. Your comparison of Trump to Lincoln is a little “weak”.
Jerry,
You are right. But the core message here is this: The Electoral College, IOKIYAR. ;-)
Jerry,,
I'm just following the expert on race, Dave Dubya...You should ask him why it's ok to use the term "the Black Guy, but good luck in getting an answer.
MM
You must have me confused with someone else. I did not ask you “why it's ok to use the term "the Black Guy”.
Jerry C
Just using the term our expert on racism, Dave Dubya uses..if it's a problem ask him about it, but don't hold your breath for his answer.
Jerry,
want to explain this:
Jerry Critter said...
MM — “He was the White House Dr under the Black Guy...”
Why did you refer to President Obama as the “Black Guy”. I don’t believe that you have ever referred to any president as the lWhite Guy”.
April 26, 2018 at 8:57 AM
Sure looks like you said something about using the term Black Guy.
Or could it be the Russians have hacked you?
MM,
Stop embarrassing yourself!
Why did you refer to President Obama as the “Black Guy”.
Jerry Critter
Because Dave Dubya does.
"You know what is interesting? Lincoln only won 40% of the popular vote but won 57% of the electoral vote. " ~~ T. Paine
You know what's even more interesting?...the demogague's rant on Fox and Friend's this morning.
He inadvertently disclosed that his fixer-attorney, in fact, represented him in the Stormy Davis case.
What a certifiable dumbass. Guilty!... LOL
I have always said that Trump is morally bankrupt. So what? All of you leftists told us that consensual sex doesn't matter and is a private issue; that should be especially true since this occurred long before he became president. Hell, his sexual escapades would have bumped him up in the polls by several points if his last name was Clinton and a "D" followed his name. By your own standards on the left, why don't you "move on.org" already?
The sex is not the problem. It is the possible campaign finance violations and potential obstruction of justice. But you already knew that, didn’t you.
Well, if the Democrats can win the house and senate they can draft articles of impeachment and kick him out of office perhaps. I think Mike Pence would do a great job as president. :)
Pence is an anti-Constitutional theocrat and enabler of the Trump corruption, taking from the poor, and giving to the rich.
Your kind of guy, all right.
I have always said that Trump is morally bankrupt.
We agree. Even a leftist knows this.
So what?
So what? A morally bankrupt president pursues immoral policy and breeds corruption. Pruitt, Mulvaney Carson, Mnuchin, Zinke, etc. are only the tip of the iceberg. Or do you deny all the reports about them?
All of you leftists told us that consensual sex doesn't matter and is a private issue;
Consenting adults, yes. So you agree with Trump that “They let you do that when you’re a star”? Right. But do you see moral bankruptcy in his unrelenting pathological lies? Do you deny he lies?
his sexual escapades would have bumped him up in the polls by several points if his last name was Clinton
BS. You just FEEL that, from your sense of moral superiority.
By your own standards on the left, why don't you "move on.org" already?
We don’t “move on” from criminal conduct. His history of criminal sexual assault aside, the Cohen/Daniels case involves a violation of campaign laws.
The bastard is running an ongoing program of obstruction of justice. His cronies lied about contacts with Russians. His toadies are loyally following their authoritarian leader and attack journalists that report the investigation and even the FBI for doing their jobs.
The “Law and Order President”. Give me a break. Law and order is for his enemies and minorities.
Now we have the Republican Party abetting a morally bankrupt president.
But that works out for “Special persons”, doesn’t it?
Wellls Fargo got a fine for defrauding customers, then Trump gave them 3 times as much money in tax cuts.
How’s THAT for Republican morality?
Time to cut food stamps, unemployment benefits and raise the rent for the poor.
This is the Party of the Christian Right. Republican Jesus is proud of them. He assures them only leftists are morally bankrupt.
"You know what is interesting? Lincoln only won 40% of the popular vote but won 57% of the electoral vote. I guess in that regard, Trump is in good company! :) ~~ T. Paine
You know what is even more interesting?...the demogague's unhinged tirade on Fox and Friends Thursday morning.
Unbelievably, he incriminated himself by openly declaring that his fixer-attorney, Michael Cohen, represented him in the Stormy Daniels case.
More amazingly, he declared (at least twelve times) that Michael Cohen was more a businessman, and less an attorney, on his behalf. There goes any prospect of his attorney/client privilege defense.
This man is not only a danger to 300 million Americans, but he's also his very worst enemy. He should submit for a gag-order - for himself!
This gets more and more interesting by the day! LOL
“Victims” Diamond and Silk lied to congress about being paid by the Trump campaign to attend a rally.
Conservative internet pundits Lynnette “Diamond” Hardaway and Rochelle “Silk” Richardson appeared on Thursday to lie under oath to a congressional panel about their financial relationship to President Donald Trump’s 2016 campaign.
During a House Judiciary Committee hearing on free speech and social media, Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-Texas) asked the pair whether the Trump campaign had paid them. The two emphatically denied receiving any payments.
“Ms. Hardaway have you ever been paid by the Trump campaign?” asked Jackson-Lee.
“No, we’ve never been paid by the Trump campaign,” replied Hardaway.
“Not $5?” Jackson-Lee followed up. “Not $100? What about $1,274.94?”
“We have never been paid,” Hardaway replied.
The Trump campaign’s Federal Election Commission filings indicate that the pair were paid $1,274.94 on Nov. 22, 2016 for “Field Consulting.”
During a combative exchange, Rep. Hakeem Jeffries (D-N.Y.) asked Hardaway and Richardson about the discrepancy, reminding them that they were under oath and subject to criminal penalties if they lie.
Hardaway and Richardson told the committee that the payment was improperly labeled and that money was actually a reimbursement for airfare that the two had purchased to speak at a Trump rally.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/diamond-and-silk-appear-lie-under-oath-about-trump-payments_us_5ae2111ae4b055fd7fc9a78b
"Pence is an anti-Constitutional theocrat and enabler of the Trump corruption, taking from the poor, and giving to the rich. Your kind of guy, all right." ~ Dubya
The fact that Pence has a strong belief in God hardly makes him a theocrat, although I understand that is the common talking point on the matter for leftists. Further, as governor of Indiana, I think it is safe to say he improved a lot of lives there and not just the rich as the old leftist canard would have us believe. That said, I would indeed think it would be difficult and hard to reconcile one's faith with some of the moral failings of the president, if I were him. I'll give you that, even though you always fail to concede the corruption and failings of progressives when I bring them up to you.
And no, I do not deny that Trump lies. That is why I have little faith in his credibility on many issues.
"We don’t 'move on' from criminal conduct. His history of criminal sexual assault aside, the Cohen/Daniels case involves a violation of campaign laws." ~ Dubya
Now I will call B.S. Moving on from criminal conduct was the entire M.O. of the Clinton presidency, and also of the HRC State Department. I get it though. Being a leftist means never having to apologize or take accountability for your own actions. Your duplicity in citing Trump's sexual assaults while denying Bill Clinton's is particularly striking. Again, IOKIYAD, amirite? ( As slimy as Trump is, I haven't heard of any credible allegations of rape leveled against him.)
"Time to cut food stamps, unemployment benefits and raise the rent for the poor." ~ Dubya
Yeah, you let me know when that really happens. In the meantime, thanks to Obama I am sure, the unemployment rates are at historic lows and the economy is actually growing at a good clip, unlike the anemic sub-two-percent growth we saw in the Obama years that occurred in spite of his progressive anti-growth policies.
"He assures them only leftists are morally bankrupt." ~ Dubya
By and large, that is a fairly accurate statement. :)
So Diamond and Silk said the $1300 was for reimbursement for airfare to a campaign event. Dave doesn't believe them because they support Trump. I want to know why he is blaming the black women? He would give them the benefit of the doubt if they were going to a HRC or Bernie rally.
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