tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-408858764761620479.post8245507334176293957..comments2024-03-28T14:14:11.551-06:00Comments on Unabashedly American: The Impending Defeat of a Progressive PresidentDarrell Michaelshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05474956372325309461noreply@blogger.comBlogger71125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-408858764761620479.post-25629784678006294862012-10-26T12:39:54.661-06:002012-10-26T12:39:54.661-06:00Mr. Paine,
Probably my all-time favorite essay i...Mr. Paine, <br /><br />Probably my all-time favorite essay is Ralph Waldo Emerson's <i>Self-Reliance</i> <br /><br />It is only a few pages, but sums up an important lesson in life. <br /><br />John Mystehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16263634313238599515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-408858764761620479.post-46907252444230119012012-10-26T12:01:53.513-06:002012-10-26T12:01:53.513-06:00Mr. Myste! How dare you comment about my wagon! ...Mr. Myste! How dare you comment about my wagon! I will hitch it to the best horsey I possibly can each and every time. In this case, I got hitched up all proper like, sir! :)Darrell Michaelshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05474956372325309461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-408858764761620479.post-23990226178531742962012-10-26T11:32:11.676-06:002012-10-26T11:32:11.676-06:00Paine,
You hitched your wagon to the wrong horse...Paine, <br /><br />You hitched your wagon to the wrong horse. You are now denounced by association, whereas you could have escaped unscathed.John Mystehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16263634313238599515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-408858764761620479.post-77083210170309476152012-10-26T11:30:03.302-06:002012-10-26T11:30:03.302-06:00Heathen,
All I said was that it was irrational t...Heathen, <br /><br />All I said was that it was irrational to "think Romney will win." <br /><br />You invented the rest. I rebuttal your invention. You now changed the argument (without conceding the prior one), to challenge another assumption about my philosophy. <br /><br />You are trying very very hard to catch me in something and one thing does not work, you seem to say: "Oh yeah, what about this then?" <br /><br />Focus on what you actually think about things without spending all your time laying traps and hoping those who disagree with you are clumsy enough to fall into them, Christ!John Mystehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16263634313238599515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-408858764761620479.post-884613999002555202012-10-26T10:58:16.160-06:002012-10-26T10:58:16.160-06:00Yeah John! What Heathen said! :) (You go, H.R.!...Yeah John! What Heathen said! :) (You go, H.R.!!!) Darrell Michaelshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05474956372325309461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-408858764761620479.post-90114761168526951052012-10-26T10:49:43.593-06:002012-10-26T10:49:43.593-06:00First, I have never claimed that Obama can't w...First, I have never claimed that Obama can't win or that Romney can't lose. You must be confusing me with someone else because I am very aware that Romney can lose the election.<br /><br />Second, it appears to me that you have constructed a world view where 1) those of us who believe Romney will win have discarded reason. But if Romney ends up winning, 2) those of you who believed Obama would win never discarded reason.<br /><br />Once again this is an example of heads you win, tails I lose. Very convenient for you.<br /><br />An alternative view is that Obama believers won't admit that the polls are skewed, so when he loses they are in for a big surprise. When a Romney believer like me or T.Paine points this out, we are told that we are discarding reason.<br /><br />If Obama loses, it will certainly be you who discarded reason and trusted the Obama-adoring media too much.The Heathen Republicanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14173487578108542055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-408858764761620479.post-45243870589269134002012-10-26T10:44:04.543-06:002012-10-26T10:44:04.543-06:00John Said: If someone were to say: "Romney co...<i>John Said: If someone were to say: "Romney could win," and then longingly imagined it, I could still classify that as reason tempered with desire.</i> <br /><br /><i>Heathen Said: John, I know that your faith in Obama won't allow you to consider the very realistic possibility that he will lose, so consider this a hypothetical.</i><br /><br />Heathen, I know Obama could lose. You have faith that I think he could not possibly lose, but your religious faith in what liberals believe does nothing to influence liberal belief. I thought we had been over this. <br /><br /><i>IF Romney wins, how will you explain the two statements above.</i> <br /><br />The two statements above are compatible with a Romney victory. Please pay attention. I said that it is unreasonable to <i>assume</i> a candidate <i>will</i> win who does not have the electoral map on his side. I did NOT say that that candidate cannot therefore win. I did not say that assuming he could win was unreasonable. I said <i>thinking he is going to win</i> is unreasonable. <br /><br />You took that to mean he could not possibly win because your conservative theology demands that you think liberals think the way you need them to think. Your philosophy should stand on its own, without this requirement. You are projecting. I am not saying Romney cannot win. Conservatives are saying Obama cannot win. <br /><br />Try not to be so desperate to trap me in just anything and you will not be so prone to getting your legs caught in your own snare, my friend. <br /><br /><br />John Mystehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16263634313238599515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-408858764761620479.post-66325996976652881572012-10-26T10:34:11.629-06:002012-10-26T10:34:11.629-06:00John: "I don't see how anyone who has exa...John: <i>"I don't see how anyone who has examined an electoral map could think Romney is going to win."</i><br /><br />John: <i>"People seem to suspend reason once they have taken a hard position on a topic."</i><br /><br />John, I know that your faith in Obama won't allow you to consider the very realistic possibility that he will lose, so consider this a hypothetical.<br /><br />IF Romney wins, how will you explain the two statements above. You claim that we have to suspend reason to believe that he can/will win. So IF he wins, won't it be you that has been suspending reason?The Heathen Republicanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14173487578108542055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-408858764761620479.post-43015731295675814272012-10-26T10:15:35.362-06:002012-10-26T10:15:35.362-06:00John, we conservatives will win through voter supp...<i>John, we conservatives will win through voter suppression, fraud, and through individual states having their Secretaries of State falsify the results.</i><br /><br />Another great quote I must log. <br /><br />However, you forgot how you will hold the House - Gerrymandering. <br /><br />Can you resubmit your timeless quote that I may log it as a complete historical record? John Mystehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16263634313238599515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-408858764761620479.post-83088232324944038722012-10-26T10:13:52.114-06:002012-10-26T10:13:52.114-06:00Boy, you guys will be sooo furious when Obama wins...<i>Boy, you guys will be sooo furious when Obama wins. ;-)</i> <br /><br /><br />I don't think it is faith that makes Republicans pretend they think Romney will win. I think they somehow sense that if they pretend Romney will win, it validates their contempt for Obama, because to them, Romney winning would validate their contempt. It is psychologically fascinating, regardless of motivation. People seem to suspend reason once they have taken a hard position on a topic. I think this is a textbook example (no offense to those holding their reason in suspension intended). <br /><br />If someone were to say: "Romney could win," and then longingly imagined it, I could still classify that as reason tempered with desire. However, the assumption that a losing candidate will win seems only to be present when combined with someone identifying oneself with contempt for the opposing candidate. <br /><br />Again, fascinating!<br /><br /><br />John Mystehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16263634313238599515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-408858764761620479.post-15511098988500982132012-10-26T10:08:47.711-06:002012-10-26T10:08:47.711-06:00John, we conservatives will win through voter supp...John, we conservatives will win through voter suppression, fraud, and through individual states having their Secretaries of State falsify the results. (At least that will be the story from the left following Romney’s stunning win.)Darrell Michaelshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05474956372325309461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-408858764761620479.post-36585726381909363482012-10-26T10:03:39.673-06:002012-10-26T10:03:39.673-06:00I don't see how anyone who has examined an ele...I don't see how anyone who has examined an electoral map could think Romney is going to win. I don't care how much you have to drink, I just don't see it. John Mystehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16263634313238599515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-408858764761620479.post-44645618919689471062012-10-26T09:42:28.107-06:002012-10-26T09:42:28.107-06:00Obama’s lies and shifts have been merely to hide t...<i>Obama’s lies and shifts have been merely to hide the fact that he is a closet Marxist.</i><br /><br />And as we now know, if this, or anything else, is asserted by someone on the far Right...It must be true. ;-)<br /><br />Hang in there, True Believer, and be awestricken, or outraged, at the majority of Americans who don't buy that paranoid nonsense.Dave Dubyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03279370558997246976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-408858764761620479.post-7353952935101055422012-10-26T08:51:48.907-06:002012-10-26T08:51:48.907-06:00Dubya, yes I am painfully aware of Romney’s shifti...Dubya, yes I am painfully aware of Romney’s shifting positions over the years. That is one of the reasons why many conservatives, myself included, did not support him in the Republican primaries. That said, he has shifted in the right direction on all of his positions. Obama’s lies and shifts have been merely to hide the fact that he is a closet Marxist.<br /><br />Darrell Michaelshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05474956372325309461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-408858764761620479.post-53172714552150117202012-10-25T18:11:05.587-06:002012-10-25T18:11:05.587-06:00TP,
To quote above: "Can't rebut the subs...TP,<br />To quote above: "Can't rebut the substance, so undermine the source".<br /><br />I'm surprised you don't know about Erickson.<br /><br />Erick Erickson is the well known editor of the conservative blog Red State. He was even hired by CNN (Corporate News Network). <br /><br />Like I said, it took guts for a Rightie to speak the truth about Romney.<br /><br />You ARE aware of Romney's ever shifting positions, right?<br /><br />No thoughts at all on this tendency? Dave Dubyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03279370558997246976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-408858764761620479.post-62954557849399199782012-10-25T17:47:06.044-06:002012-10-25T17:47:06.044-06:00Dubya, who is Erick Erickson that his OPINION shou...Dubya, who is Erick Erickson that his OPINION should end all debate on the matter of Romney? I was unaware of the previously unknown Mr. Erickson as being an infallible authority on all things Romney. Perhaps if I was aware of some set of sterling credentials beyond reproach for Mr. Erickson, then maybe I could take his words more seriously. Otherwise, his is just one more progressive opinion based on class warfare rhetoric. Was he perhaps one of the quasi-leaders of the great unwashed (if you will pardon the term) occupy Wallstreet movement? For that matter there is much in Mr. Erickson’s unfounded assertions that could just as easily be applied to Mr. Obama. There! I acknowledged and responded to your clip. Happy? :)Darrell Michaelshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05474956372325309461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-408858764761620479.post-78101045699945088452012-10-25T16:59:20.245-06:002012-10-25T16:59:20.245-06:00HR,
I pointed out the article was not about the US...<br />HR,<br />I pointed out the article was not about the US. Another point is the article is dated before the unemployment rate dropped to the level Obama found waiting for him when inaugurated.<br /><br />Calling out projection relative to the previous comments is hardly an attack. "Can't rebut the substance, so undermine the source," is exactly the response to my linked article.<br /><br />After the typical unfounded anti-government assertions, GOP talking points, and the usual "prediction as fact" claim about what Romney will do, this was offered, "I am sure you can find all sorts of Paul Krugman wannabes that concur with you."<br /><br />There was no substantiated response.<br /><br />See what I mean?<br /><br />I love how you channel Mr. Myste: "Stop claiming you know Republicans. Argue what you believe. Argue substance. Debate the points we make instead of what you think we think."<br /><br />See my Baucus point. I'd say if I know him, I know Republicans. <br /><br />"Same bosses" was my conclusion, my belief, and my substance, backed by the fact he reeks of insurance and pharmaceutical money, just like Republicans.<br /><br />And this was never considered for some reason..."The Republican Party represents the interests of Big Money."<br /><br />Mmkay?<br /><br />Speaking of points, I've yet to any criticism of a sitting Republican or candidate.<br /><br /><i>Stop claiming you know Republicans. Argue what you believe. </i><br /><br />I've told you this is what I believe: "My friend, the bottom line is this. The Republican Party represents the interests of Big Money. That’s it. Don’t you know that simple truth yet? I don’t blame you, of course. This is why they need such a vast network of corporate media propaganda."<br /><br />I have also stated my agreement with Erick Erickson, which was also ignored and lost to response. <br /><br />Have a look again at my shared belief:<br /><br /><i>Mitt Romney, on the other hand, is a man devoid of any principles other than getting himself elected. As much as the American public does not like Barack Obama, they loath a man so fueled with ambition that he will say or do anything to get himself elected. Mitt Romney is that man.<br /><br />I’ve been reading the 200 pages of single spaced opposition research from the John McCain campaign on Mitt Romney. There is no issue I can find on which Mitt Romney has not taken both sides. He is neither liberal nor conservative. He is simply unprincipled. The man has no core beliefs other than in himself. You want him to be tough? He’ll be tough. You want him to be sensitive? He’ll be sensitive. You want him to be for killing the unborn? He’ll go all in on abortion rights until he wants to run for an office where it is not in his advantage.<br /><br />Along the way, he’ll drop lots of coin to grease the skids for himself. Mitt Romney is the silly putty of politicians — press on him real hard and he’ll take on whatever image you press into him until the next group starts pressing.<br /><br />Republican billionaires have a fantastic track record of getting Republican opinion leaders to support them and an even better track record at losing elections. Mitt Romney will be no different.</i><br /><br />Anyone care to respond, or even acknowlege? Anyone? None so far.<br /><br />Seems yours is not the only time wasted.<br /><br /><br /><br />Dave Dubyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03279370558997246976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-408858764761620479.post-83089935801305402752012-10-25T16:42:55.037-06:002012-10-25T16:42:55.037-06:00A study was done using the Iowa Electronic Market ...A study was done using the Iowa Electronic Market (which supposedly has a proven record), a combination of polls and a combination of historical data analysis to decide who would win. I wish I could cite the source, but I heard about on NPR and I have no interest in researching it, as I am not trying to make a rebuttal, but just tell an anecdote. This source, unlike other predictors, has an uncanny record for producing the right answer when combining factors. <br /><br />They found that Obama should win, no faith needed. <br /><br />Some in the GOP, like some of you here, are desperately trying to prove that Obama will be unseated, as if that would validate your wacky conservative philosophy. <br /><br />I have yet to see any relevant proof that would argue against the indicators. Charts, single indicators, are certainly a feeble and inferior attempt. However, Mr. Paine, though I don't agree with you, the only way you can refute the seeming direction is with philosophy, which you have attempted to do. You are arguing what you believe for the reason you believe it and I respect that rare quality. <br /><br />MR. Heathen was correct: I do think your non-cherry picked real philosophy is far more cogent than his arguments. However, ultimately I see no reason to buy into it. I don't think unseating Obama is rational and you said nothing to convince me otherwise. If we are going to unseat him, I think the Romnies are a better choice by far than most Republicans: easily manipulated by public opinion and often defers to the majority. I respect that about them. They are good Republican Joe if ever there was one. <br /><br />Besides, Ryan and his type bore me, but with Romnies, each day brings a brand new one. You just never know what you are going to get. Romney is like a box of choc’late.<br />John Mystehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16263634313238599515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-408858764761620479.post-79513018766220721832012-10-25T14:43:49.323-06:002012-10-25T14:43:49.323-06:00And now you're attacking me... yet you still h...And now you're attacking me... yet you still haven't addressed the substance of the Lott article that you asked me to link.<br /><br />Stop accusing me of projecting. Stop claiming you know Republicans. Argue what you believe. Argue substance. Debate the points we make instead of what you think we think.<br /><br />Otherwise you're just wasting everyone's time.The Heathen Republicanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14173487578108542055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-408858764761620479.post-3590419659202276852012-10-25T14:41:45.433-06:002012-10-25T14:41:45.433-06:00Yes, like TP asserts above. "Paine: Wow! Do I...Yes, like TP asserts above. "Paine: Wow! Do I know liberals or what?"<br /><br />Love your projection.Dave Dubyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03279370558997246976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-408858764761620479.post-3118999688090742672012-10-25T14:28:45.057-06:002012-10-25T14:28:45.057-06:00Typical Dave. Can't rebut the substance, so un...Typical Dave. Can't rebut the substance, so undermine the source.The Heathen Republicanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14173487578108542055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-408858764761620479.post-36606608613634140352012-10-25T14:25:44.474-06:002012-10-25T14:25:44.474-06:00HR,
OK, thanks for the "fair and balanced&quo...HR,<br />OK, thanks for the "fair and balanced" assessment from one John Lott co-author of the just released "Debacle: Obama's War On Jobs and Growth and What We Can Do Now to Regain Our Future". Dave Dubyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03279370558997246976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-408858764761620479.post-5214061313519165542012-10-25T13:21:09.423-06:002012-10-25T13:21:09.423-06:00Sure, okay. I linked the OECD instead of the artic...Sure, okay. I linked the OECD instead of the article quoted. Here is the article: http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2012/07/16/austerity_works_its_time_to_give_it_a_try_99764.htmlThe Heathen Republicanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14173487578108542055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-408858764761620479.post-34562283657161909122012-10-25T13:16:15.913-06:002012-10-25T13:16:15.913-06:00HR,
It would help if your link went to the words y...HR,<br />It would help if your link went to the words you quoted. ;-)Dave Dubyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03279370558997246976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-408858764761620479.post-92131503989331455222012-10-25T13:14:30.496-06:002012-10-25T13:14:30.496-06:00Then you better disregard it, Dave. I wouldn't...Then you better disregard it, Dave. I wouldn't want you to learn anything, and I sure don't want you to read anything that contradicts your left-wing faith.The Heathen Republicanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14173487578108542055noreply@blogger.com